This & That: Whacky Partner Edition
Posted by Gail | Filed under Relationships, This & That
Sometimes we partner up with people who make the saying, “Two peas in a pod” true. Sometimes we validate the saying, “Opposites attract.” It’s always easier working through life with a buddy who is of a like mind. But it’s those whacky partners that keep life interesting!
J wrote:
My wife watches your show every day. She is pregnant with our first child and plans to go on mat leave beginning in September. We got married about a year ago and have always held separate bank accounts. As it stands now, I pay approximately 90% of the household bills. She is receiving short-term disability now and will so go on mat leave. She pays her car payment, her insurance payment and a consolidation loan payment. She recently approached me after watching your show to suggest we get a joint bank account, and have both our pays deposited to the account and pay all the household bills. We both have credit card debt. I have never had a joint bank account with another person, always pay my bills on time and I’m hesitant to give up the control I feel I have with my financial situation. Can you give us some tips?
J, I understand your need to be in control of your financial situation. If you are already carrying 90% of the costs associated with joint living, I’m not sure what the joint account would achieve. I would suggest:
a) You both get your debt paid off, as a priority
b) You then set some joint goals that you contribute to jointly, proportionate to your income, and
c) You have regular discussions about the money, where it’s going and how happy you are about that
You must be spending more money than you make if you’re carrying credit card debt and she has a previous consolidation loan. Time for you both to start living within your means. That means a budget buddy. And it has to be realistic. And you have to stick to it. It’s only going to get more expensive when baby gets here.
Sandra wrote:
We have a combined gross income of 125000 (his 75000 + mine 50000). We have no savings and seem to have no money at all for extras – our mortgage is a line of credit of about 53000. Due to past experience I have taken over paying most of the household expenses – all utilities, house insurance, 1 car insurance, my own credit card, our daughters line of credit, groceries. My spouse “forgets” to pay the things he is responsible for-house taxes, the other car insurance, income tax. Today he advised me that he has 10000 owing on his credit card and he had paid 1200 in payment on it. I had thought it was about 5000 and had been trying to get him to pay it off from the line of credit. He refuses to consider any amalgamation of this debt but with over 20% interest rate on his credit card he will never get rid of it. He keeps saying he is dealing with it but he does nothing. We (or at least I am) are considering converting to a traditional mortgage ( I will then know that the taxes will be paid), he agrees with me but I think this is so I will drop the issue and he does nothing. Should we convert to a traditional mortgage and include his credit card debt in the mortgage? How do I get him to see that he/we are drowning? How do I get him to apply for a lower interest credit card (I have done this and it was painless = I am not innocent either as I am carrying about 1000 on my credit card) I have tried the direct approach, I have tried the ” we will do it together”. I have tried tears and anger and am at a loss as to what to do.
Sanda, m’love, my heart goes out to you. I know exactly what it feels like. But I don’t have “the cure.” Sadly, there are people who do not recognize the importance of taking the right steps and who just will not listen to reason. And there is nothing you can do to wake them up. I would go ahead and do the consolidation to a reg mortgage. Then I would set up a house account (my name only) and have him transfer monthly (automatically, if you can swing it) the money for all the things he is supposed to pay for and I’d pay them from that account. Now there is only one “transaction” he has to do a month (and hopefully it’s automatic) so he can’t forget. Then I’d make it clear that any mess he makes is his mess (make sure you’re not signed on any joint debt). You need to build yourself an emergency fund, so make sure part of his contribution includes money towards this goal. You should also read the blog on protecting yourself.
D wrote:
I have recently moved in with my boyfriend, who is absolutely wonderful except for one aspect: money!! Now that we live together I have become aware of his financial situation, and even though it his debt, I am feeling the stress and being overwhelmed by it. I have developed a plan for him to get out of his debt, and I do admit he has downsized his lifestyle by far, but I still feel like he is not doing everything he could be doing to help his situation. Also I feel like I have been holding his hand and pushing and nagging him to start taking action. This, of course, has made me lose respect for him. He wants to get married, and I would like to as well, but I have told him I will only marry him when he has made a considerable dent in his debt, and proven to me that he is making an effort and understands how serious his situation is. How can I get him to understand and take control of his own problem, and at what point to I give up and let this wonderful -in most ways- go? PLEASE HELP!
D, Make sure you have a plan for when the debt will be paid off. It may take a year or three. If it takes longer, you’re not trying hard enough. Be supportive of both your efforts to fix this. If he’s paying off the debt, you can be saving for the wedding, a house, or whatever joint dream you may have. You should each have goals you’re working toward. Make sure you’re having some fun. If you have to nag, he’s just not that into the process. This is a big opportunity for him to show you that he is a grown up. Maybe he is, maybe he isn’t. Only you and he can decide that. But along the way, you need to be having a great time (doing cheap things) so you don’t become all about the “mess”. You’re young. Use your imagination.
Suzanne wrote:
My husband and I have two different outlooks on finances. I am a saver and he is a spender. We are from two different countries, but he now lives here in Canada, and I am trying to teach him and show him how to save here for our future and our son. He on the other hand believes money was made for spending, and credit cards aren’t a priority to pay off. This is causing a massive stress in our marriage and we are currently separated. Do you have any tips on how to communicate and for me to show him our debts are to be paid off first before we can save for later. Any tips to how we can talk and what to do to make this happen without arguing? I want to save our marriage but he isn’t helping financially as he should be.
Suzanne, you face a very difficult time ahead as you try to make this work. If you both love each other enough, it will. Take heart in the fact that you are among many who find themselves married to a partner with very different perspectives on money. Patience and the desire to make it work are key. Here’s what I would do:
1. I would do up a budget for the things we are both commonly responsible for: housing, utilities, food, the baby’s needs (now and in the future so you each should contribute something to an educational savings fund), anything that should be a fifty/fifty slit.
2. Open up a joint account and agree to each contribute half to this “house account.” This is the account from which all the joint bills/expenses are paid. Both put money in. If you cannot trust that he won’t tap the account, it has one signature — yours — and you pay the bills from the account. If he doesn’t make his monthly contribution to the account, then there’s no more discussing because now he’s just looking for a free ride.
3. If there are things your partner wants that you do not feel are necessary — think premium cable, fancy cell phone, restaurant outings, etc — then these bills go in your partner’s name and your partner is responsible for paying for them. If he doesn’t pay, the services get cut off, but it’s no never mind to you.
4. Determine who is responsible for which debts. If they have been jointly held (both names on the account), get busy separating them. Each of you should have your own credit for which you are responsible. Never sign for the other guy. Now you each have to come up with your own debt repayment plan. If he chooses not to pay off his credit, that’s his decision. He’s a big boy and will have to live with the consequences when the credit finally runs out. Keep your hand out of your pocket. No matter how much he promises to change, he must SHOW he has changed by taking care of his financial commitments.
5. Since saving is a priority for you, but not for him, make sure you set up an RRSP in your name and make regular monthly contributions (as little as $50 to get going is fine, just get started.) You should also find a way to squirrel away some money for emergencies.
6. Do not have any more children unless you are full prepared to be a single mom of two kids. Life holds many surprises and having kids is a huge responsibility. You should know you are able to take care of your kids by yourself before you have more.
J wrote:
Dear Gail: I have been watching your show for a year now, and I’m amazed at the level of success your participants achieve. You provide both the participants and the viewers with an excellent and much needed service. I am not so different from most of those participants, unfortunately. My husband and I make excellent money (over 200,000 last year). I “manage” our money, but mismanage is a better term. In spite of our income, we have $66,000 in consumer debt. Each month I go a little further in the hole. I am not a shop-a-holic or a gambler, and we don’t have a lavish lifestyle. However, my husband has always been very insistent that we save for retirement (about $800 a month, not including my pension) and that we pay off our house (we have paid off $130,000 in the last five years and will have it paid off in three years). Nothing is left over for clothes, gifts, or vacations. About four years ago, I was very depressed and began to let things slide. So when we wanted to buy things or go on trips, I just said, yes we can afford it, never telling him that to afford it, we would go into debt. Now after four years the debt has mounted, he doesn’t know and I don’t know how to tell him. I don’t think he would leave me, but I know he would make my life unbearable. I guess I need the courage to bite the bullet, because the stress is killing me.
J, girl, you’ve got to get this mess in hand. Have you done up a budget to show him where the money is going and how “strapped” your cash flow is because of your aggressive mortgage pay-down plan? This would be the first step. You also have to be honest with him. Really. You have to tell him the truth. It isn’t fair to him. And it’s killing you. So do up the budget so you can show him the problem, tell him the result — the consumer debt — and then show him YOUR plan for solving the problem.
Deena wrote:
My spouse and I have been together for 7 years with one child and until now our income is never combined. I work about 27000 a year and he about 60,000.Our biggest expense is the mortgage – when I tally our expenses and income,it appears that we can save at least a thousand every month. We are an immigrant family – I have been here 7 years and him 9. I have debts of about 12000 – he has none – yet he never offers to assist me with paying them off. I struggle by on my income trying to pay my debts off. Looking on from the outside our relationship seems perfect but many times I feel resentful of the life.In my culture a woman controls the money -yet in my own household,i basically control my own and I am not doing a good job of it – and he feels as if I am incapable of saving,its just that I don’t have enough to save.Up to last year I had a pretty good credit score,now no one will offer me credit.I have cut up my credit cards and has cancelled one with a smaller amount.Gail,I think perhaps we need relationship help????The only thing we ever fight about is MONEY – nothing else.I will understand if you cannot respond to me,this is a kind of therapy for me – to voice my discontent…thank you all the same.Your show has given me hope…i am going to work it through on my own.
Deena, I am sorry you are struggling so. I don’t know enough to be able to help you with financial specifics, but here are some things to think about:
If you and your husband are sharing your expenses 50/50, while it may be equal it is not “fair” since he makes so much more than you do, and a marriage should be a partnership. So the first thing you should do is figure out your expenses proportionate to your income. In other words, since he earns 60K of your $87K joint income, he would pay 69% of the joint expenses, while you pay the other 31%, leaving you each with some money to save, pay down debt, and do whatever else you like.
If you cannot get your partner to agree to this arrangement, then I would cut all non-essential expenses: cable, cell phone, all shopping, cut way back on groceries, everything you can cut to the bare bones that does not affect your child, and focus all your extra money on debt repayment.
If your partner insists on keeping “luxuries”, then he can pay for them. Right now your priority has to be two-fold: get that debt paid off completely and start building your long-term savings.
BTW, here is a tip from Julie:
Not a question or a success post – I have a spreadsheet file which may be useful. In the questions section of March 2008, someone was looking for a spreadsheet to calculate lump sum payments on a loan and you asked for suggestions. The best one I’ve found is a template that came with the 97 Excel ValuPack. You can find it here:
http://thehardyhome.com/software/Office%20Pro%2097/VALUPACK/TEMPLATE/EXCEL/
The name of the file is loan.xlt, and of course, once you use it, you save it with an .xls extension. This is the best file I’ve found for imagining different scenarios with my mortgage prepayments.
I know you are swamped, so don’t fuss about responding. I hope this is useful,
Julie
October 7, 2009 at 7:04 am
Gail,
Sounds like eachof these couples are missing a key part of financial success, Communication and transparency when it comes to money. Either they keep their finances separate or they hide from each other what is really happening. I strongly believe that communicating about money and having everything out on the table and transparent to one’s parent in life is the best way to get both people on board and moving inthe same direction.
regards,
Jason
October 7, 2009 at 8:34 am
I hope the Gailites don’t crash the hardyhome website following that loan.xlt link. You can access the same file in an .exe form from the Microsoft download site:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=6B0593FD-3530-4F1B-AB96-62C2504D37C0&displaylang=en
October 7, 2009 at 8:37 am
I agree with you, Jason.
The trouble is that money represents so many more things in a relationship than a means to provide food and shelter.
It represents power, control, freedom, status and unfortunately can be tied up with addictions or abuse, cultural and religious beliefs.
Each person coming into a relationship views money/spending in a different way and in fact, may not even realize what $$ mean to them.
I think we need to analyze our own attitudes towards money before we can have a frank discussion with our partners.
And obviously, like Gail advocates, that discussion should take place before we get married.
October 7, 2009 at 9:37 am
Jason you have truly found the one thing that seems so hard to a lot of us. These conversations are part of that taboo section of life. It is rare that at gatherings with friends and family that you discuss the finances, I think because it is a very touchy subject and we’ve all grown up with the “it’s nobody else’s business” thing ingrained in our brains. You know what, it may not be our business to know, but it sure becomes that way as it’s a giant part of relationships.
Talking about it can feel strange, embarassing, give you a sense of dread and anxiety, but it’s a MUST for any – that’s right ANY relationship we have. This is why I love the Gail Clubs so much. It gives you a “safe” place to be open and honest, allows you to practice your financial conversation skills so that you can have an open discussion with your partner about things when you are in your own place, and not get emotional about where things. Plus it has the added bonus of having more than one set of eyes looking at the situation, and giving you positive feedback about what to try, what could be changed, angles you’ve not seen before and quick solutions to some of the problems.
That is also why I think many of us resonate so well with Gail, her show and her blog.
October 7, 2009 at 9:40 am
I agree with both Jason and Diana.
Communication about money is something that should be done prior to a relationship. If two parties are not on the same page about money in their relationship either a compromise solution that will work has to be implemented or relationship and financial disaster waits for them right around the corner.
When it comes to money it’s all about being educated and finding the right people or sources to help you get the answers that you need. Money management is a learned behaviour, not something done by osmosis.
October 7, 2009 at 9:43 am
I also agree with Jason, in our household, even though I am in charge of all the finances (I’m good at it and I like it, my partner doesn’t like it and isn’t good at it) I leave our household budget binder on the table top so he can look at it whenever he wants. We don’t have a regular time to talk about money, I just provide a running commentary. That said, he does ask from time to time how much we have left over this month, are we on track with our monthly budget so far, the kids need snowsuits do I need to work overtime to pay for them, etc. I realize that I am blessed to have a partner that was fairly easy to sway to the savings side of things but the most important part is that we are both totally committed to the household being in the black every month, each doing what needs to be done to achieve that.
October 7, 2009 at 10:15 am
Great post Gail! I love these round ups!
October 7, 2009 at 10:41 am
I wish there would be a personal financial intelligence questionnaire for people to fill in prior to getting emotionally involved with someone. Life doesnt allways work like that though. So the best we can do is communicate, try to keep it civil, and find an arrangement that works well.
The least double-incomce couples should aim for is pro-rata funding of fixed expenses. Common accounts and automatic payments should be set up on pay day, before anyone can get to the income.
Im sure bloggers on this site all know about this drill far too well by now.
As for our situation, its not perfect. We have a 25K balance on a HELOC, that we are very slowly paying down, because the rate is so low, and the fact that we are agressively paying down our larger mortgage at a higher rate.
My spouse is struggling, has a lot of debt, but I have managed to diplomatically ease her into automatic RRSP and saving account contribution, however minute. We have agreed to hiding her credit card, having her on a joint HELOC sub-account, so she can stay within reasonable debt limits, and slowly work her way towards getting debt-free.
October 7, 2009 at 10:51 am
Great post. I’d just like to add one more thing for those couples who need to get the other partner to put in their fair share: saving, especially for an emergency fund, (but I think for kids and retirement too) should not be made optional. At least a bare minimum of saving needs to be incorporated in the household budget and contributed to by both partners as though it was as vital as the rent.
Because really, it is. And emergencies, kids and retirement (if the couple is still together) are joint expenses, so they should be treated as such in the budget.
October 7, 2009 at 11:40 am
I understand both sides of this issue.
My first relationship we were living together, sharing accounts (after much convincing from him) and we were on completely different ends of the financial pole. I wanted to be smart, pay down our debt and save. He wanted to spend, spend, and spend. The stress that I incurred as the one that did all the bill paying was huge. I remember one time he went to the bank and took out a loan – for nothing. What did he do with that money? Spent it – on junk! This also happened a second time. Towards the end he had to go up to Fort Macmurray so he could make a dent in the debt he incurred. Once he was making good money he promised that he would start making double pymts on one of his “for nothing loans” that I consigned (don’t worry the cosign was only for the first 6 months of good behaviour and then they took me off) but he wasn’t. I found out from the loan company that he had only been making the minimum. Six months later we broke up. When we broke up I was terrified about how I was going to pay for all the bills and debt in my name (car loan and student loan) without his help as he made about %60-70 of the income. on top of that he drained th little savings after we split. I actually found it alot easier. I slashed all the expenses that I didn’t need, took a second job and for the first time in 4 years felt in control. I paid off all the little debts in 5 months and paid off my car in another year.
Now, my fiance and I share the same views about money. We both want to be as responsible and as smart as we can and still enjoy life. I take care of all the bills because I enjoy too and update him every other day of whats happening and get his input on financial decisions.
It is so much easier to have a partner that is on the same page as you financially, but for the people who don’t you can’t help who you love and it can still work. My parents are completely different when it comes to money and they have been happily married for 35 years! When my mom and dad were taking about it one time to me they said, “even though we are financially incompatible we have always been honest and always consulted the other before making decisions.”
October 7, 2009 at 1:01 pm
My parents had a long and good marriage and my Mom handled all the finances brilliantly and yet the only thing they ever fought about was money – whose was whose, my money, your money. This led to a lot of distrust, petty remarks and foolish comparisons. Those fights left a permanent impression on me. I found them disrespectful. In my opinion either you are equal partners or there is no point to sharing a life.
When I found my guy I was completely honest with him and told him that I would never be able to enter into a relationship where the money was going to be kept separate. Anyone entering my life would have to be completely open about money. Fortunately my guy agreed that if we were sharing a life, a home, a bed, a bathroom and various body fluids we would also be sharing the money. Why wouldn’t we if we were committed to each other?
In 36 years there has never been a question of your money, my money – it has always been our money and our debt. We have fought about money and each of us has done really stupid and negligent things. I have been mad at him and he has been mad and surprised at me. We have annoyed and disappointed each other and certainly have done the up and down married life thing but fortunately we never fell out of love and trust with each other at the same time.
We mishandled our finances brilliantly but we did it together. We have also dug ourselves out of our mess together. We each have our own “no questions-asked allowance” money to spend anyway we want but the rest belongs to the family. The way we look at it is that if we only have $1.00 left in the world then that dollar belongs to both of us and it doesn’t matter who earned it and if he needs my 50 cents he can have it and if I need his 50 cents I can have it and if we need to use our allowance money for the family that’s okay too.
We earn the money, we pay the bills. We take care of ourselves and each other. I make sure that I can have a nice pair of shoes and that he can have yet another techno gizmo. He makes sure that he can pay his gym membership and that I can get all the chocolate I need.
October 7, 2009 at 1:33 pm
If I had to do it all over again, purely for financial reasons, I would have a different spouse (and mine would probably say the same thing).
He can’t see ahead or plan ahead in any way, least of all financially, to save his soul. To try to do so with him leads to unpleasant ‘discussions’
Then again, if I could know then, what I know now, about finances, I’d be in a better place too. Sweet hindsight LOL
October 7, 2009 at 7:42 pm
Thanks for the article, Gail. I’m learning so much from you.
I’ve decided it’s time to accept that my spouse will never want to participate in money discussions or planning. He gets angry any time I bring it up and tells me he doesn’t want to hear it.
He makes the money for now. I do the finances. We don’t fight about money per se, but when we argue about anything else he often tosses in how all the money is his and I do nothing because I only stay home to watch our kids (and do nearly everything there is to do in a household.) I don’t consider this a money issue.
October 7, 2009 at 8:20 pm
I love these posts where people write in! Sometimes the answer seems so simple, sometimes they are really tricky! Great answers, communication is key in any relationship.
October 8, 2009 at 6:44 am
Anna, I feel for you! I was in a similar situation in my first marriage. Married to an alchoholic farmer, I was isolated away from my family, and NOT allowed to work off the farm. I was, however, told that I would get an allowance of $200/month, to spend on my craft supplies, hair cuts, etc. But, I wasn’t even allowed to go to town by myself! The money never materialized, and since he had a charge account at the general store, any groceries, etc, got charged up. 16 months and one concussion later, I smartened up and left, vowing that if I ever got married again, it would be to a truck driver, so we wouldn’t be together 24/7. Be careful what you wish for!! Fast forward five years and there he was – a charming truck driver. Finances were once again never discussed properly, other than to be told that he needed $XXX for meals on the road, etc, while the growing family was left with as little as $40 sometimes to last two weeks!!! 14 years of being a SAHM and trying to spread out what he gave me for the family of five taught me to hide/hoard money if I had any extra for future ‘emergencies’. If “Joe’ however needed a new guitar, or $1,600 aluminum rims for the semi, they were bought with no consideration for anyone else, including his flesh and blood. Throw in the fact that he hadn’t done his income tax for about five years while being a travelling musician, and came with thousands of dollars of taxes owed, and only after I became pregnant did he admit that his ‘ex-wife’ wasn’t legally his ex-wife – yet, and you might come to the conclusion that I have absolutely no ‘loser radar’ to speak of. Some churches have marriage prep courses; money management, communication, and full disclosure should be on the agenda. Fast forward again, and I ‘inherited’ another gem when his mother died, and he had to leave the senior complex she had lived in – I am not kidding!! He had fallen off a ladder, and required knee surgery, and had no job, etc…… Gullible Gussy, that’s me! Allowing him to stay for a few weeks while he found a place turned into 3 years, in which I discovered I was constantly lied to about his income amount, so much so that I basically supported him, like my own children. While recuperating from hubby #1’s ‘affections’, I had one nurse ask me “Do you have any means of supporting yourself?” Those words have stayed with me for the past 30 years, and I have come to realize that I can only depend on myself. IF there is ever another member of the male species (that I didn’t give birth to) in my life, you can be sure that my personal finances will be in order, so will his, and we will have a workable plan to combine our assets, every one of them. But I am thinking that this person will have to take a written test, be certified by several doctors, pass the inspection of all my siblings, and spend a week with my mother, after being approved by my dog. Until then, I will continue to live by my motto – “A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.”
October 8, 2009 at 10:08 pm
[...] This & That: Whacky Partner Edition « gailvazoxlade.com [...]
October 9, 2009 at 10:53 am
Isn’t that what a relationship is all about, sharing? However it’s sad to see relationships break because of money. Even the barter system was no though!
October 12, 2009 at 5:55 pm
[...] This & That: Whacky Partner Edition « gailvazoxlade.com [...]
October 13, 2009 at 1:02 am
Lots of good advice but I’d like everyone’s input on a notion I have concerning shared money / joint expenses.
I understand and accept the idea of proportional contribution. In my own situation I chose to pay all except groceries (my suggestion to help her get out of debt). I don’t think the proportion should be based on gross income. Instead I believe net income works better since this is the money available to be allocated.
Here’s our case as an illustration. Looking at gross income I earn $2.94 to each dollar she brings in (the last couple of years have been kind). By rough comparison using all deductions, the net income ratio is about
$2.10 to each dollar she bring in. Put another way, using this method puts the expense contributions at 68:32 using net income versus 75:25 using gross income.
Since statistics can be tilted to suit a point of view, another interpretation of the above is that using net income my proportion would decrease down 9.3% but her’s would rise 28%.
Again I only put this up for interpretation, but does the idea of using net income strike you as reasonable? I’d be interested to hear your feedback.
JP
November 23, 2009 at 12:20 am
This post alert how to manage both of life spending in family and how to spend family budget. I like very much. Thanks for your share.
July 7, 2010 at 6:49 am
I am very really agreed for this subject because we should learn the right way to control our budget. Best.
January 2, 2011 at 6:27 am
That is known that cash makes us free. But how to act when one doesn’t have money? The one way is to try to get the home loans or just college loan.