Money Matches — Part 1 of a 4-Part Series
Posted by Gail | Filed under Money & Family, Relationships
Slice has a Gail Reel set up
that’s funny as all get out. Have a watch!
Loads of people have written to me about having mates whom they love but who are driving them nuts when it comes to managing the money. And the recent airing of the Guy & Julia episode has brought out the issue even more. The comments on the Til Debt Do Us Part Facebook page are very telling.
Some people seem to think that because a body doesn’t match yours when it comes to how you manage your money, your relationship is doomed. I think that’s only true if you don’t consciously make the effort to iron out your difference. Even people who are money matches have to work at making their relationship successful. Marriage is work! Don’t let anybody tell you different kids.
The problem is that most of us go into marriage all glowing and hot, never thinking about how we are similar to or different from our mates. Since the very idea of talking about money is anathema to romance, people just avoid the issue. And when you and your mate are on the same page about a lot of other things – how you’ll raise your family, the spirituality you share, the way you feel about life in general – money tends to be the elephant in the room.
Some people contemplating a long-term relationship don’t even know how different their attitude is from that of their mate. Later, when they clash, they can’t understand how they can be so far apart in their money personalities when they’re together on so many other fronts. Or worse, they think the conflict will “just work itself out.” Hmmm.
If this seems to be a bigger deal in today’s world than it was just a generation ago, it is. Once upon a time the majority of women did not work. And it was the rare woman who made more than her mate. So guys made the money along with all decisions about what to do with it. Now that our roles in life have changed, so have our financial expectations.
With double incomes the new norm, we think we can afford to have it all RIGHT NOW. The pressure to make a good show – drive a nice car, live in a beautiful house, go on vacation, wear gorgeous clothes — is heavier than ever. We come to measure our lives with materialistic badges and the old saying, “He with the most toys wins” has become our mantra.
People – women in particular – are pulled in all directions. Since historically we have been the caregivers, we have yet to learn how to balance that against our new financial power as major contributors to a household. Sometimes we just let the other guy make the decisions and then seethe with resentment as we watch our partners screw it up.
You’d think that with both partners working there’d be more money to save. But often two incomes mean dueling wallets. With different money personalities, different agendas, and a tit-for-tat approach to spending, there’s more debt.
So what can you do if you’re getting into a relationship – or you’re already in one – and you and your mate aren’t money matches? Tune in tomorrow and we’ll talk about creating a money match. This is part 1 of 4, which will culminate with how to protect yourself if your better half is drop-dead determined to leave you worse off.
Here’s a note that came in from Mary this weekend:
Hi Gail – can you ask folks to post some more recipes – maybe stuff for the harvest time, fall time, canning, preserving, soups/stews, large batch cooking for families with kids going back to school – make enough for dinner, some for lunches the next day, freeze some? I’m always looking to share new ideas and recipes, and appreciate receiving the same. I’m wondering if we can’t remind people at the start of every month, perhaps, to post their faves. Looking forward to your new season.
September 14, 2009 at 5:46 am
Opposites attract
Isn’t that what magnets do
September 14, 2009 at 6:43 am
I can’t wait to read this series Gail! I just re-did my budget up to July 2010 and am so excited to see savings increase and debt decrease down to next to nothing. What a sense of relief, as my husband talks about finishing the basement and needing a gazebo in the backyard and getting interlock done and buying a new computer/tv/anything! Lucky for him he gets bonuses at work that will help pay for all these doohickies, because I’m on the long run to the finish line now, and there’s no room for veering off course for a new “Awwww, look at that, I NEED that”.
What has saved us from going dead broke is we purchased big things together or agreed on whoever had room in their personal budget to take on a payment. Of course I thought I had ample room and ended up well further in a hole than I started out. So until way into 2010, all these new things will have to be purchased by my husband because I’m sick of throwing myself off the boat without a life preserver!
September 14, 2009 at 8:01 am
My husband and I are truly always on the same page with money. We have a joint account, all the cards are always on “the table” and we both feel what’s ours is ours. What’s mine is his, and his is mine. Complete sharing.
All our money is in the same pot, and from that same pot all expenses for house, family, life, savings, comes from this.
It works for us and it’s certainly on less thing to “work” on in our marriage.
September 14, 2009 at 9:09 am
I look forward to reading this series, and the discussions I’m sure will follow!
September 14, 2009 at 9:38 am
To Mary – I hate to simply promote my own blog, but I have tons of recipe ideas on there, along with strategies to reduce waste and cost. The best way to see all my recipes – including soups like my own corn soup, butternut squash soup, tomato soup, salmon chowder – is just to go to the blog and then click “recipes” or go here http://saverqueen.com/category/recipes/
September 14, 2009 at 9:46 am
I’ll tell ya, 12 years ago when we met, my husband and I were certainly not a match when it came to money. We still have our hiccups but we have grown a lot together to become harmonious in this area. We now are able to have reasonable and respectful conversations when we make decisions about money, even though we still have very different priorities.
September 14, 2009 at 9:52 am
Another factor I’ve often wondered about in regards to previous generations and money is if they simply had fewer expensive household items that were considered “essential”. For instance, no DVD players, huge TVs, computers, video games, electronic knick-knacks, etc?
I don’t know, but maybe someone who is a generation ahead of me can confirm this, or disavow me of this notion? Just curious.
September 14, 2009 at 10:39 am
Mary, there’s a great book I love, called Fix Freeze Feast. Shows you how to prepare bulk meals for the freezer, with marinades, sauces, etc, so that you just have to take them out and bake them. I love it.
September 14, 2009 at 10:42 am
People should just do what my parents did. He went out and earned the money and she spent it. He figured since she did the shopping for food and for us kids, she knew better than he how to alot the money.
Now, there is one important factor that made this work beautifully: my dad NEVER buys anything for himself. And neither of my parents really treated themselves to anything while we were growing up (although I sometimes did find milkshake cups in the sink in the mornings…that was their way of ‘going out’!)
September 14, 2009 at 10:42 am
The airing of the Guy and Julia episode is a classic example of today’s generation that wants to play now and deal with reality when it’s too late. When it was mentioned that both parties were teachers I smiled because teachers have typically been some of my most challenging clients. I’m not sure if it’s the rosey pension at retirement that has them thinking only for today, but it’s interesting to say the least.
Budgeting for my wife and myself is quite easy. One joint account which both of our pays go into and all bills are paid out of. Also out of the joint account, equal amounts are directed to each of our own spending accounts, that way we can buy what we want with no questions or arguments as to what we used the money to buy. One joint VISA and no additional credit cards. All household related expenses purchased via the VISA are paid in full each month using the joint account and all personal expenses are to be paid using our individual accounts. The joint account is also used to fund our investments and emergency account. Real estate account is a seperate entity all together.
We have never argued over money because this system was established and agreed upon when we got married. We live our lives 50/50 and it’s proved to be a great method for us.
September 14, 2009 at 11:26 am
Money Coach – your posting made me laugh. In a previous life I was in a pool installation business, and my worst clients were always teachers. The worst at accepting that sometimes things happen that aren’t in the lesson plan (ie rain for 3 weeks) and always thought they knew everything. (Disclaimer: my dad was a teacher for 30 years).
My wife and I work in a similar fashion, all the money goes into one pot and it all comes out again, but we don’t have separate spending accounts, just discussions for the bigger stuff (over $100). One credit card that we use mainly, but we keep my wife’s other card active as it’s in her name (our main card is in mine) just in case we ever split up, I want her to have some credit history. Our biggest issue is when she promises she won’t spend as much next month, if she can buy something now. Luckily the thing “now” is usally quite cheap and compared to some wives I’ve got it made in the shade with mine.
September 14, 2009 at 11:27 am
Oh speaking of that teachers episode, what is with hot girls marrying total money deadbeats? Assuming (like my wife, myself and Gail did) that she’s re-released into the wild in a few years, she won’t have any trouble meeting someone who shares her mindset and I wish her and her baby the best of luck (him, not so much).
September 14, 2009 at 11:36 am
My partner and I use the 3-pot system: yours, mine, and ours. We have individual accounts and credit cards, but transfer funds to our joint account to pay our joint bills. The idea of having only shared accounts and credit is scary — if something should happen to one of us, the other could be left without access to frozen accounts, or with no credit history. For the last two years, we’ve been using Gail’s jar system and contribute to that proportionally to our incomes; at different times over the years we’ve taken turns being spenders, savers, major breadwinners. We aren’t always on the same page about how to deal with money, and I handle most of the details, but we talk a lot about where we’re at, where we want to be, and how we’re doing at getting there. In money, as in everything else, communication is the key to a good relationship!
September 14, 2009 at 11:55 am
Money opposites work as long as both people recognize the need for responsibility. I find myself hoping Julia doesn’t let Guy drag her to the poor house. I know that in her situation, I would be marching to divorce.
And yet, my husband and I have nearly the same money tenancies as they do. The only difference is that my hubby respects that debt bothers me a lot. He loves me enough not to want me to be distressed. Therefore we stick to the budget, not because it is easy for him, but because he knows it is important to me. Since he was running a monthly deficit when I met him, I appreciate that it is a challenge. I helped him balance his budget and start a debt repayment plan while we were still dating. By the time we moved in together, he was in much better financial shape. Now that we are married, be just lets me run the resource pool.
He can’t always see all the little steps to the big goal, but he can keep the end goal in mind. We want to have the mortgage paid off before we retire. Unlike Julia, I don’t feel like I have to be his parent. I occasionally wish he would help with the budget. He is happy to let me do it as long as he gets the big picture sum up at the end, and he trusts my numbers.
September 14, 2009 at 12:24 pm
When we got married, we were the ones who thought money would just sort itself out. Four years married, a baby and a consolidation loan later, we’ve adopted the jar system and have found that using small individual (weekly)spending allowances gives us the financial freedom to do our own ’silly’ spending on a small scale without having to answer to the other and now it has become a bit of a contest…i.e. who has money leftover at the end of the week. It’s nice to think that by forgoing a Tim Hortons coffee each day, I can afford a manicure – or by deciding to bring my lunch each day, I can afford a nicer b-day present for my hubby.
This individual $ has also has been great so that when my husband says ‘I just can’t live without_______” I can say…”only X weeks and you can save up your personal $ for it!?” It certainly helps with balancing our own individual priorities such that neither of us feels resentful or deprived. When we both have our own $, we live by the idea that if it’s THAT important to you, you have the means to save for it – if you don’t save for it and you’re still breathing, then obviously you could live without it! This ’saving delay’ also has provided us the opportunity to seek out alternatives to purchasing (i.e. look for coupons or discount offers, opportunities to purchase used, friends who have an old/extra one of ‘those’) rather than just snatching it up the second we deem it ‘needed’.
On the idea of the ‘norm’ (or what is a ‘must have’ expense) – each of us has our own definition – we discovered that it’s so important to sit down and discuss what WE really MUST have…when we realized we were in over our heads, we sat down to talk and during just that first discussion were able to trim our budget by over $100/mo just by cutting out the cable and supreme internet services that I thought he wanted and he thought I wanted but that neither of us used.
Gail – you’re right, marriage can be HARD WORK! What we’re learning is that the key is freely and honestly communicating your wants and needs. It’s not about expecting the other to meet them all…the goal is simply to make sure you’re both understood so that you can make informed value-based decisions about money, sex, kids….everything.
September 14, 2009 at 1:28 pm
This is one of the first things they talk about in pre-marital counselling – money. You need to have a spouse who thinks the same way you do, or else you will have hardship going forward. Money – even if you have it – can be a very contentious issue, if both of you don’t talk about it.
My wife and I are big savers and we don’t buy anything that we can’t pay off. The only debt that we have is a mortgage, and we hope to pay that off in the next ten years or sooner. We are frugal by birth and will teach that to our kids.
Thankfully, we both aren’t overconsumers or have divergent money management habits.
September 14, 2009 at 1:43 pm
@Arteme-I’m probably 1 or 2 generations ahead of you. When we got married in 1969 we didn’t need to have everything. When I got an electric hand mixer as a wedding gift…I was thrilled. Do you see what are given as gifts today? Even shower gifts? What brides and grooms feel they must have to start their lives together?
Hubby was going into 2nd year University…then to teachers college (I’ll take the 5th on the above comments about teachers) and I was working full time.
Our daughter arrived 13 months after the wedding and so times were tough. Thank goodness for my parents!
We never really talked about money. We had and have one pot. Everything goes in and our debts get paid out of it. I am the financial part of the team and so far things are tickedy-boo. We just celebrated 40 wonderful years together so I guess we’re doing something right.
September 14, 2009 at 1:45 pm
My partner and I are both teachers. However we are using the jar method, thinking about retirement (not just our pensions), etc. We were both shocked at Julia and Guy’s episode.
I think that it wasn’t just ‘how Guy handles his money’ that was displayed. It was his attitude and disrespectful attitude towards Julia. We have seen several episodes where the husband spends money like crazy, however the difference was his attitude. He acted like a teenager who doesn’t know what being an adult means. In my mind it was his insults to Julia that made me more angry, not the reckless spending. Julia just kept taking it though. The stress shows in her face.
I think that many people in my generation do save money and plan. However I do think a majority do spend too much money on ’stuff’
September 14, 2009 at 1:47 pm
My husband and I were not a money match when we first got married. I didnt realize how much he was spending. He was one if it was in the bank you could spend it on toys as you say. So what we did when he got a full time job was he paid all bills out of his money. I put my money away and that became our savings for the family. It took a lot of work and communication to get us to the point we are at right now and I am thrilled to say we match now ! I am not as thrifty and dont get anxiety over money and he is a saver and pays the bills. Sometimes we splurge and he knows that is okay too !
We have been married for 12 years and I would say it took awhile for us to get to this point you are correct marriage is work!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for the show !!!!!!!!!!!
September 14, 2009 at 1:47 pm
@Catherine
It is not just wedding gifts that are appalling, but the amount of money spent on weddings.
Rich Bride Poor Bride anyone?
September 14, 2009 at 3:34 pm
@ Rebecca.. I hear ya…
Rich Bride Poor Bride makes me want to throw up.. I can’t believe the money that they spend on one day…I get that they are on the show becuase they are spending crazy amounts of $$ but seriously.. I have been married almost 9 years and I have NEVER once thought gee I wish I spent more … the benefit to having a wedding on the “cheaper side” is that there is less to organize – all that stuff that costs craploads of money also add to the to do list- I truly enjoyed every minute of the day and the days leading up to it- I never once felt stressed about the planning or the day!
sorry off topic but boy oh boy it sure seems as though those couples are setting themselves up for a future appearance on TDUP..:)
September 14, 2009 at 3:57 pm
Thanks to Jean and SaverQueen for your suggestions – it’s the tried and true recipes I’m looking for – I’ve taken a look at your site, SaverQueen – fabulous – and I’m off to the library tonight to reserve the book, Jean. In the meantime, everyone, keep sharing what your’re cooking or tasting in the Share Your Recipes section.
September 14, 2009 at 5:02 pm
Catherine – thanks for your input. I’ve always suspected that the bar had been raised for acquiring “stuff”, glad to know this is not pure conjecture on my part!
I am old enough to remember a time in my childhood when nobody had VCRs, personal computers, or other fancy toys eating up a big portion of the household budget.
September 14, 2009 at 5:39 pm
@Arteme – You’re welcome. I forgot to mention that ‘back in the olden days’ there was only 6 weeks of maternity leave. I was home 1 week before our daughter was born and back to work 5 weeks later.
By the time hubby was done school (3 yrs. uni. + 1 teacher’s college) it took 9 years to pay off his student loans…our decision as interest was 2% then – but they kept hounding us to pay off more at a time.
No VCR’s, computers or other fancy toys here until our two children were teenagers.
@Rebecca – I’ve never seen Rich Bride Poor Bride – but it sounds to me that the whole reason a couple in love want to get married and share their life together is not their priority.
September 14, 2009 at 5:55 pm
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September 14, 2009 at 8:18 pm
Not that old, mid 40’s but yes back when I was a kid there was not all this “stuff” or “crap” is a better description of what is now termed a neccessity. We had no cable, I remember when we bought our first VCR and had it forever before upgrading (it had a wired remote) and rememvber when we bought our first color tv, also had that for a loooong time. If you couldn’t pay for it, you didn’t get it. I worked from the time I was 12 and if I wanted a pr of jeans that was more than mom was going to pay for I had to ante up the difference. Same as my first 10 speed, I had perfectly fine bike but if I wanted the 10 speed I paid for it myself. People have to realize most of todays stuff is not necessity but simple wants. For instance, we have said for the last 2 yrs we would like a flat screen tv…we have a small home. We have the money to pay cash but yet we can’t seem to part with it. The one we have is just fine just a little bulky so hardly a good reason to waste money on another.
As for Rich Bride Poor Bride, I watch it all the time and talk to the screen the whole time telling them they are insane and what a waste of money. All these money could be spent/saved in a much better mannner and still have a lovely wedding without getting tens of thousands of dollars in debt..it is just plain craziness.
I sound like my grandmother, but I just see so much waste and then people complaining they live paycheque to paycheque…well duh!
September 14, 2009 at 9:33 pm
@Catherine: I agree….they don’t seem so interested in the actual meaning of a wedding, just the ’show’
The brides (who want to spend money) are more interested in the spectacle of their wedding and what people think of their wedding (common trend ‘I want everyone to talk about my wedding for YEARS’). The whole grand entrance idea has just gone way out of control.
The comments coming out of their mouths regarding the budget can be quite shocking. Weddings on this show have been anywhere from $5000-$100,000. I wish they told viewers how they actually paid for their weddings…..
September 15, 2009 at 12:38 am
Before we get too harsh on those who ‘waste’ money on a wedding, it’s very difficult nowadays to keep the numbers down. When my wife and I got married in 2005, we found it very difficult to keep the budget under $15,000 and we had 75 guests (total, including wedding party) which is pretty small. My stipulation was that dinner and booze had to be included, it had to be somewhere localish (Toronto) without forcing a hotel on people if they didn’t want it, and that was pretty much it. I know there’s some comments here about how much people spend, but if you haven’t been through it lately you may not know. My memory on numbers is a little fuzzy but here’s what I remember:
DJ – $400 (that’s cheap)
Hall, with food and booze included $9000 – ridiculously cheap since it includes booze
Dress + Tux $1000 (cheap)
Flowers from Dominion (yes, the grocery store) $300
Transportation – $25 cab ride for me, no limo or sportscar
Photography $1500 – cheap again
Invitations + Postage $150 (self made)
Wedding bands $2000 (a little extravagant, I’ll admit)
Gifts for guests/bridal party $300 (guest gifts made by us two nights before)
Official + Fees $300
I’m sure I’m missing a whack of stuff too.
We were married and had the reception at the same place, to lower costs but it’s difficult. Now there are some on RBPB who have 400+ guests, and multiple courses or ‘need’ the $1,000 motorized wedding cake, etc but that’s their culture often at work besdie their ego. But my wife and I really tried to have a modest wedding, and that’s just what it costs and I tried to cut down costs (I had a friend make the seating chart, I delivered the good imported beer to the hall so it’d be available, whatever I could, I did). $50 a plate is not uncommon these days, sadly(separate bar).
September 15, 2009 at 9:27 am
@Geoff
Yes, I am aware of how much weddings cost (hence why I added the bubble ‘brides who want to spend money’, as there are the more frugal brides as well).
I’ve kind of figured that it would cost roughly $100 per person for an open bar (generally $70 per person at the hall, and then everything else).
Alot of the costs is related to how much businesses jack up costs when they know it is a wedding that is involved.
September 15, 2009 at 10:38 am
Geoff – I think you did really well for being int eh GTA!! I think Geography has a bit to do with cost of weddings (and many other things) too…
We rebelled against the expensive wedding and so went ’small town’ for ours – We held a Beach BBQ themed wedding in a small town near Collingwood and given that our friends are ‘outdoorsy’ we arranged and paid for group camping accomodations within walking (stumbling) distance. We realized that our expectations of what a wedding should be (formal, tuxes, wine glass toasts) really didn’t apply to us or our friends and family and so we ditched the traditional, although still opted to hold our ceremony at a beautiful local church.
Dress & Tux – $400 (I saw a prom dress I liked and just ordered it in white – seasonal discount too!)
Flowers and Decorations- $250 (we made our own bouquets)
We used our own cars for transporation
Photography $1300
Invitations & postage $150
Wedding Bands $400
Gifts $300
Official & Fees $300
Caterer (Beach BBQ Theme) – $700 (food for 70 people)
Municipal Beach Front hall and beach pavillion $50
Bartender $50 (local service group)
Booze – we did a donation bar and offered just staple drinks – it paid for itself
Accomodation for guests (campsites at municipal beach campground) $100
DJ $500
Thus less than $4000.
I think you’re right – we couldn’t have pulled this off in the GTA. Also, like Gail says there’s the RIGHT NOW mentality. We knew we wanted to be married but we also knew that our student loans and entry level incomes would prohibit a big flashy wedding – so rather than giving into the RIGHT NOW, we just decided to alter our expectations to fit within our financial limits – and our friends still talk about how great a weekend they had.
September 15, 2009 at 2:26 pm
@Geoff
I’m not meaning to come off harsh. Furthest thing from my mind. Never having seen RBPB I’m not privy to how much is spent for their weddings or their wants over their needs.
Our wedding cost $1,000. for 100 people – sit down roast beef dinner in 1969. One attendant each. Hubby wore his own grey suit. Best man wore his own brown suit. Ushers wore their own blue suits. My attendant wore a dress from standing up in a previous wedding. The flowers were down by my aunts from the Farmers market.
Our daughter’s wedding cost $10,000 in 1989 for more people, bigger venue, and because of the grooms job…more guests that ‘had’ to be invited. Sad thing is they separated 10 years later.
Our son’s wedding was paid for by the bride and groom. Nicest wedding I’ve ever been to. Took place at an Inn on a lake. Total of 52 people. Most of us arrived the night before and enjoyed the time together. The guests were served delicious hot and cold finger foods after the ceremony. I, my son’s godmother and the mother of the bride made a cupcake tree. The groom, his Dad, the brides Dad and the grooms 3 attendants all wore Hawaiian shirts. The bride wore a beautiful sea blue/green long chiffon spaghetti strap dress that rippled behind her like a little wave. Her 3 attendants each wore a summer dress of their own. The flowers were gerbera daisies.
Pictures were taken by a friend of the bride. It was officiated by a Justice of the Peace – a childhood friend of my husband – the best man at our wedding.
So…their wedding was on a shoe string, but, there was no stress, no drama, only peace and happiness as they said their vows to each other and funny thing….they are just as married as anyone spending much, much more.
September 15, 2009 at 6:50 pm
My husband and I have different approach to dealing with money. Early on in our relationship we came up with the plan that I take care of the Bills and Groceries. we post a list on paydays to show what bills will get paid and what will go into the savings. The rest of his pay cheque is his to what ever he wants and the same goes for me. After the Bills are paid the rest of my paycheque is mine. If I chose to save it and he chooses to spend his oh well we have our bases covered. We do not use credit cards, if we want something we save for it
September 16, 2009 at 6:05 am
We made money on our wedding. We know of people who go into debt doing so. Our finances are one, except for stuff which my wife needs to own – like the house and the cars. Apart from that, everything is joint. Chequing, credit cards, savings accounts, etc.
We just upsized to a minivan so that we can fit our growing family (we went up in size from a Honda civic that was my first car in the late 90s), as three carseats can’t fit in the back! I was convinced for awhile that we could do it, but it’s not safe. (I’ll never buy another new car again – it’s a sure way to lose money).
We live on one salary and have been doing so since we’ve met. Any secondary income goes immediately into savings – that’s how we bought our first house with 25% down (we rented until we saved that much). Any proceeds from an asset sale (like the future sale of our Honda) will NOT be plowed into our budget, but will go to offset other assets that we are paying interest on (our mortgage).
We live simply and live frugally, but we love life! (find out more on our blog)
September 16, 2009 at 2:36 pm
@ Catherine – you certainily did not come off harsh!
As an FYI, $10,000 in 1989 = $15,000 now and your $1,000 wedding is about $5,800 in 2009 dollars. So your wedding depending on guests was certainly affordable but not quite as cheap as you might think, and your daugther’s wedding was on par with ours (hopefully it’ll work out better, but we’re only coming up to year #4 – tommorow as it turns out).
Source:
http://www.bankofcanada.ca/en/rates/inflation_calc.html
October 15, 2009 at 10:46 am
[...] Money Matches — Part 1 of a 4-Part Series « gailvazoxlade.com [...]
March 28, 2010 at 7:34 pm
Hey I actually found this page by mistake but I’m glad I did! I’ll be following from now on.