Keeping Score
Posted by Gail | Filed under Relationships
One of the things I’ve noticed in life and in doing the show is people’s propensity to keep score. Partners say (or at the very least think) things like, “I’ve been to dozens of his boring games, it’s time he came to a musical with me,” or “We’ve spent every single holiday with her family, it’s time my family got to see the kids at Christmas.” I know I’ve done it. And I’ve been royally ticked when my partner was very good at taking, and not so good at giving.
“Compromise” is the word that usually comes up when you start to talk about “evening the score.” I actually think that score-keeping is a really bad idea, although I’m the first to admit I have no idea how to get people to stop. And I hate, Hate, HATE the word “compromise.” Maybe because whenever it’s been thrown at me, as in “You’ll have to compromise,” (said in a deep, patronizing voice) it’s usually because I’ve done just about enough compromising and have drawn a line.
I much prefer the word “negotiate.” The idea behind compromise is that both couples do it evenly so that over time it’s a 50/50 wash. Personal experience has told me that this very seldom happens. Usually one partner is much “better” at compromising, and turns into a doormat for the sake of peace. The other claims to compromise, but it’s on very small things. Then the Keeping Score starts.
The problem with keeping score is that sometimes it takes a long time before the other person gets theirs and the score builds and builds on one side of the scoreboard, making the person who is doing all the compromising feel like a fool. Eventually, if you’re in a real partnership, it comes out in the wash. But what about all those feelings of resentment and being-taken-advantage-of in the meantime?
I like the idea of negotiation. Here’s how it works.
“Honey, I want us to go to my parents’ for the holidays.”
“Okay, sweetie, I know that, but I hate your parents. Your mother always acts like I was the worst possible choice in a mate. She looks right through me.”
“But she hasn’t seen the kids in five years. And she’s sick. This is really important to me.”
HERE’S WHERE THE NEGOTIATION COMES IN…
“How important on a scale of 1-10?”
“It’s a 9.5.”
“Well, it’s a 8.5 for me NOT to go on my scale, so you get this one.”
Ha, I see the flaw Gail…. What if the other guy makes all his/her scores a 10 all the time? See, that’s where my brand of negotiation is so great: For every three in a row one guy gets, the other guy gets an auto-default to what he/she wants. So if you play the 10 card three times in a row to get your way, you’d better be prepared for what comes next, because it’s my way all the way baby!
For most couples this kid of negotiation works because, on a case-by-case basis, you’re determining just how important it is to each person. If something is a 5 to me and a 7 to you, clearly you get what you want. If it’s a 9 to me and a 3 to you, I get my way. If it’s a close call, which it can sometimes be, then you’ll have to negotiate on a finer point.
“Not going to your mother’s house is a 9 for me, baby. Sorry.”
“Going is a 9 for me so what now.”
“Well, how long do we have to stay?”
“I’d like to stay 5 days.”
“Okay, I’m prepared to give this to you if we stay two days.”
“TWO DAYS!… How about three.”
“How about 2 and we call it three! Hey, man, the fact that you’re getting me to go to your mom’s house is a fricken miracle. Cut me some slack.”
“Alright, we’ll go late on Friday and leave early on Sunday. That’ll seem like three days.”
“No, buddy, it’ll seem like a month. But I’ll buy that.”
Try it. See if you can make it work for you. And it doesn’t matter how small the negotiation is, remember the three-in-a-row rule. It’s bad for the relationship dynamic for one person to get his or her own way all the time, no matter how right (s)he may be.
June 12, 2009 at 7:51 am
I need to send this to my sister in law…it’s always HER way.
I personally think that things should be equal in a relationship..all one-sided is not good.
Thanks Gail…great post.
June 12, 2009 at 7:53 am
My wife and I never had this issue, even when all our parents were living.
We travelled to each ones locallly
My parents are deceased now so its just her one parent remaining.
She has more siblings than I do but never really had an issue or negoiation period
June 12, 2009 at 8:33 am
This is awesome and it works for us.
June 12, 2009 at 9:30 am
I think relationships are much more complex. While I see this strategy working in some cases, it is just not necessary for others. Elizabeth, I would caution you about judging your sister-in-law’s relationship. What may appear as “her having her own way” is not necessarily the case. Human dynamics work in very complicated ways. Often times relationships that appear that way from an outsider’s perspective are not actually that way between the two people involved. Someone who is perceived to be a doormat, or conversely a bully isn’t necessarily perceived that way within the relationship.
Often we pair with people in the beginning because certain qualities attract us. Someone who is very decisive may be very attractive to someone who has trouble committing to something. For an outsider, it may look like one person is always making the decisions or always getting their way. Both people may be content with the situation, OR have chosen to present the situation that way on purpose. For example, let’s say that neither my husband or I want to visit family this Christmas. Both families are pressuring us to visit. My husband is okay with him being blamed for us not going. So what I present as our reason for not visiting is, “C would really like us to take a vacation just us this year. He is not comfortable with holiday travelling, etc” Something to that effect. Both him and I have already decided to be comfortable with that arrangement. But perhaps from the family’s perspective, they see C taking me away from my family. But that’s just their perspective of what’s going on, not what is actually the case.
Besides, I hate making those decisions, so I’m perfectly happy.
This is just a scenario that I know a lot of people do. More couples I know than not have worked out ways to support eachother’s needs in ways that outsiders can never understand.
Anyways, just my two cents. And for what it’s worth, in my relationship it is definitely me who is the decisive one. My partner would much prefer not to face confrontation of any kind. This doesn’t make me a bully.
June 12, 2009 at 9:38 am
Marcie,
You don’t have to caution me..she’s been in my family for 18 years and I know her all too well. If you knew what I know, you’d understand.
Each family has their personal gripes and the comment above was mine.
June 12, 2009 at 9:49 am
I don’t know, but to me this seems very childish. It should be obvious to my spouse that I would want to see my parents especially if they are old and sick, and it’s demeaning to duke it out like that with numbers.
June 12, 2009 at 9:55 am
I’ve been using this system since I first saw you prescribe it to a couple on the show. It works. And not just because sometimes I get what I really want; rather, it makes me evaluate what I actually want and how badly I want it.
Plus, it gives me a better understanding of where my partner stands on any given issue. Sometimes his 10’s are a complete surprise to me. Understanding just how important that issue is to him prevents me from being a bully, which I can sometimes be.
M.
June 12, 2009 at 10:18 am
Interesting post, Gail.
‘Keeping score’ is something we see every day. Whether it is between a couple, friends, or family members.
I have lost a few friendships due to ‘keeping score’. I got tired of being the one ‘giving’ or ‘giving in’ all the time.
Thankfully, my husband and I are good partners. There is a lot less compromising, or negotiating, in our relationship than I see in others.
This blog makes me think of a quote my husband read to me the other night. “Man is the only animal that tries to get even with his enemies, and ahead of his friends.”
June 12, 2009 at 10:18 am
I once read that in relationships that work, BOTH partners feel like they give MORE to their spouse than they get back – without resenting it. In other words, if you think everything should be 50/50, then you’ll always be holding out the ruler, trying to make sure you get a fair shake. If you BOTH think that you will just always have to give in more, you’ll probably end up with a pretty fair situation ultimately.
June 12, 2009 at 10:18 am
I think the point of this – is a tool or an option in terms of identifying HOW important something is to you and to your partner. Quanitifying it may help each partner understand how much they do or don’t want to do something.
It many not work 100% of the time for 100% of the people – but I can see where it could be a good place to start if a couple has NO tools and is just fighing all the time.
June 12, 2009 at 10:29 am
I would agree with the sentiment that keeping score is bad for relationships. I’m not sure how this method would fly in my house, but as Jessie astutely pointed out, it’s a tool. Some tools work for some and not for others.
From personal experience, part of the impetus to create a workable budget was that I kept getting upset that my husband was spending money on fun that we didn’t really have, so I would cut back on things I wanted/needed so that things would balance out. Clearly not tenable in the long term. I would get upset with him, stating that now I can’t get my hair cut/buy shoes I need for work etc. because he’d already spent that money, and he would tell me to go ahead and do what I wanted, then I would say that he didn’t understand that we couldn’t spend the money twice, and then it would quickly degenerate into an argument, with both of us feeling crappy… a desire to stop keeping score got us to talk about how to handle these situations , so now things go a lot more smoothly at my house.
June 12, 2009 at 10:49 am
I’m sorry.. I see a major problem with a spouse who would think that they had to ‘negotiate’ or even discuss… visiting the other’s spouse own mother if she was “ill”! That would be a very very sad relationship if one did not consider the other’s family members, especially with illness involved – I don’t care how much you dislike your in-law – have some heart. Maybe it was a bad example for Gail’s originally excellent subject.
I, on the other hand, lucked out to have found an amazing guy who treats me very well, (and vise versa) – we never have to do the give n’ take as we tend to enjoy the same things. *phew*
June 12, 2009 at 10:57 am
[quote] I once read that in relationships that work, BOTH partners feel like they give MORE to their spouse than they get back – without resenting it. In other words, if you think everything should be 50/50, then you’ll always be holding out the ruler, trying to make sure you get a fair shake. If you BOTH think that you will just always have to give in more, you’ll probably end up with a pretty fair situation ultimately. [/quote]
I think this was really well said. I guess my original distaste was the notion of keeping tabs. But I was also raised with a very strong value of what fairness means. I was raised that life is NOT fair, that people do not give and receive in equal amounts and people are not entitled to the exact same things. I try to raise my children with the same sense of fairness. So the idea that I would actually be keeping score within my own family is so against my personal beliefs and value system that it would never occur to me to do it. The idea of giving now so I can get later is quite repulsive to me. I give so the other person can receive, not so that I can receive something later down the line.
I hope I’m not offending you Gail. I guess it works for some, but for me I would never want to look at my relationship that way.
June 12, 2009 at 11:15 am
I think the example was an extreme one to make a point. Let’s face it, sometimes Gail has to word things strongly in order to get through to her readers and viewers.
We need to get past the example to get to the core of the advice. It may not work for all. Remember, not everything is one size fits all.
June 12, 2009 at 11:18 am
psychsarah – we are in the situation you described now, with hubby spending money and me having to make concessions of other needed items and the resentment factor is creeping in lately. How did you convince your spouse to stay in the budget? My hubby sees things as ‘just $20′ and when I see the debit line on the bank statement it was ‘just $57′. Driving me bananas.
We are lucky that we do not keep score on a lot of other things, but I know I am guilty of it with the finances and who spends what on what and on leisure time (who gets time off without parenting and who does not).
June 12, 2009 at 11:39 am
Great post Gail! Thanks for this. Navigating within a relationship can be tricky…
June 12, 2009 at 12:35 pm
Great post, Gail. I wish I could be that cheeky about visiting my in-laws! I’m enjoying your blog very much.
June 12, 2009 at 12:40 pm
I can totally relate to Elizabeth – my sister-in-law is always voicing my mother-in-law’s “her way or the highway” mentality. We often don’t get a choice and end up changing our plans to accommodate what they want to do. It’s either that or deal with the mother of all meltdowns and/or incessant nagging. It’s really annoying sometimes because they never consult with us and just expect us to drop everything for them. So now we’re trying something new – he’ll just go do stuff with them, but I don’t necessarily have to go unless it’s some kind of special occasion like a birthday or holiday. I think I can only deal with the nagging once during a month…not every other week. =) There’s my personal gripe, heehee! =)
June 12, 2009 at 12:45 pm
My sister and her husband negotiate on EVERYTHING. She agreed to keep her hair long if he agreed never to grow a mustache, she agreed to take his last name when they were married if he would agree to get ‘the snip’ after 2 kids. It seems to work for them, but I find it repugnant!
I count on my husband taking my word on it if I say there is something I definitely want to avoid, and if he does it anyway, I expect a very good reason. He hasn’t let me down. He provides excellent and logical reasons and I end up in agreement 99.9% of the time. That works in reverse as well. He trusts MY judgement, so I make sure I am careful about my reasons for doing something that I know he is not in favour of.
It doesn’t mean we don’t EVER make deals though! Christmas and holiday time are always a long drawn out process of planning and figuring out where when and how.
Negotiations can be bad too, like psychsarah points out, the money can’t be spent twice. My sister also uses negotiation in spending. If he can smoke, then she can buy clothes, if he gets beer, she wants wine, if he goes fishing, she gets new toys, if he wants a big screen TV, then she gets a King sized bed (with new linens of course). The have spent themselves in collosal sums in the name of ‘fairness’. Again, I don’t see how it is a good idea, but they seem very happy doing it (as long as it’s fair).
June 12, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Very good post. My fiance and I have a shared bank account now and there are some things that we should not purchase but it is a tough situation (we were both single for so long – and we always got our way).
The previous comment talks about trust. I am learning to trust her with everything. I don’t have any problems having a shared account, because I learned to trust her.
June 12, 2009 at 1:02 pm
I think the example is pulling attention away from the strategy. Personally, I think it’s an awesome way for the partner in the relationship who may not be so great at articulating his/her perspective to express how important something is.
In our relationship, I talk through everything while he processes internally. In arguments I can talk circles around him until he has no choice but to agree with me. I know this is a bad habit and I try to resist the urge, but at the same time, I get very frustrated when he won’t voice how he feels about something or when he gives in rather than fighting (ahem– negotiating) for what he wants. He’s a math guy, so I think this number thing will really work for him!
June 12, 2009 at 1:02 pm
Elizabeth: I agree with you! I also have a older sister that thinks she should have it always her way and she doesn’t see it at all!
My husband and I when we first got married just over six yrs ago. Negrotiate that when we were at his family house that when he gave cue that his ready to leave.. It time for me to get ready to leave.. On the way to my parents house or siblings home we agreed that he put a time limit on visiting with them.. But as the yrs gone by he has put a longer time limit on visiting considering what the occasion is…
June 12, 2009 at 3:24 pm
Our family has always had a “every other year” Christmas policy. You marry into the family, you spend one year with those in-laws, the next with your own family. This has always worked for us – it might not always have been at my parents’ place, but at one of my siblings. The same for the other side. It made planning so much easier, as the families were spread out over two provinces as well. That gave each family two years to plan and save for the travel if required. As for keeping score, I can relate – my dad smoked, so mom had her ’smoking money’, which usually got hoarded and used for some farm emergency anyway. I was subjected to the desire to have (for myself) the same amount of money that my ex spent on his musical instruments, etc. but as others have stated, you can’t spend the same money twice. I guess we have to set boundaries early in a relationship to ensure fairness, because some of us are just born doormats!! One good excuse, I guess, for remaining single – I am tired of “”sharing”".
June 12, 2009 at 3:25 pm
I lucked out- cross-cultural marriages mean holidays are (relatively) easy! Christmas with one family, Passover with the other!
*phew*
June 13, 2009 at 3:24 am
This is such good advice. (I’m hoping my husband will use his 3 and it’ll be my automatic win when we’re buying a house! Just kidding.) You are so funny, I was laughing so much while reading.
June 13, 2009 at 10:33 am
Hustler, I’m so happy to get your note. It was meant to be funny, yet so many took it to be deadly serious. The strategy is sound for those who can make it work. The example was meant to illustrate you can use the strategy for anything, not just financial decisions. I’m glad I made you laugh!
June 13, 2009 at 9:08 pm
Gail,
I was laughing my head off.
Your point always sears through your biting sarcasm.
I get it. So very few people have the wit to do so.
Keep it up.
This point has very little to do with in laws IMHO.
An excellent lesson.
June 13, 2009 at 9:09 pm
And of course, I meant few people have the wit YOU do to write so poignantly with snark.
June 14, 2009 at 3:00 pm
My husband and I use the number system all the time — if we’re both over a 5, we’ll probably do the whatever.
Also toss a coin — while it’s in the air you know if you want heads or tails.
June 15, 2009 at 7:48 am
Omzig-it was no easy task, let me tell you. It took a fair bit of discussion (admittedly, sometimes it was quite heated discussion) for my husband and I to get on the same page with this (and continues to be a bit of a struggle occassionally). Not to be preaching to the choir here, but the jars did help with this issue. If there’s only X amount in the entertainment jar for the week, we have to discuss how we’re going to spend that. It made it more real to him to see the cash sitting there, and to realize that once its gone, its gone.
It’s funny you should say that your DH will say something cost $20 when it’s really $57. The ongoing (mostly funny) debate at my house is that if something costs $26, I say it costs $30, while my DH says it costs $20-you can see how that might mess with the budget a little eh? We like to laugh at this little foible of ours…
June 15, 2009 at 9:35 am
Since we’ve had kids this has been a much easier task for us – surprisingly! I am much more laid back about things, so it’s made him a little more laid back (I was the worst one, though). We just seem to know how important each other’s things are…the other night he had mentioned in the morning that he may want to go out to watch the game…then my cousin called who was home from away and wanted to go out for an hour or two, so I told her I may not be able to…so I mentioned it to him and he had made the plans but cancelled so I could go out!!! It makes it easier to “negotiate” the next time and do favours for each other when you make the effort.
June 18, 2009 at 6:58 pm
Oh my, I’m picturing my grandparent’s having that conversation. Lol!
For myself, I’ve found that instead of concentrating on the what, asking why can help. At one point, I was annoyed with my fiance pushing to save for a new tv and he was frustrated with my dismissal of the whole idea. Turns out he never actually mentioned the fact that our current tv was on its last legs which really puts a whole different spin on things.