Kids & Money Survey
Posted by Gail | Filed under Kids & Money
Last week I did an interview on CBC radio talking about financial education in schools. Seems there’s a board trustee at the Toronto District School Board who thinks that money should be part of the curriculum. Annie Kidder of Parents for Education thinks it’s a job for parents.
Y’all know what I think. It is ridiculous that we have kids leaving school with a focus on earning a living without the skills it will take to manage the money they will be earning. It’s absolutely pathetic that in 2009, we are debating the relevance of financial education as part of the school curriculum. And it is down right dumb that kids are being given access to credit (student loans) without being given any understanding of the implications of using that credit.
So here’s a short survey. I’d like you to pass this on to as many friends and family members as you can because I think this is important and the more feedback we all have the better. Leave your responses in the comments section, and I’ll go through them and amalgamate them. Then maybe we can come up with some ideas on how to finally slay the Money Ignorance Dragon!
- Do you think schools should teach children how money works and how to manage it?
- At what grade do you believe this education should begin? And end?
- List six topics you think schools should cover when it comes to teaching money management.
- What role do you think others (parents, bankers, community groups) should play in the education of our kids, specifically about money?
- Do you agree or disagree with the statement: Financial institutions should be held liable for lending irresponsibly when they don’t “educate” before they lend. (Elaborate if you wish.)
- What three things about money do you wish you had learned earlier?
- What mistakes could you have avoided if you’d known more about how money works?
- What do you think it will take to change The System and ensure the next generation of adults knows how money works?
- Do you have resources you would recommend to help schools, teachers, parents, help children learn about money?
- What else would you like to say on this topic?
April 1, 2009 at 6:55 am
1) Schools need to teach kids how to think for themselves, read legal language and learn responsibility for their actions. They need the skills necessary to understand contracts and interest. That’s a tall order.
Schools should only be teaching about the basics of money. There would need to be a clearly defined curriculum – I know alot of teachers who carry large debts and don’t manage their money well (in my opinion). And I’d rather that some of their opinions didn’t rub off on my kid.
2) This education should begin when kids are aroung 8-10. When they can understand mathematical concepts well.
3) six topics: interest/ compounding, cost-benefit analysis, saving for purchases, prioritizing, debt, credit
4) everyone already plays a major role in educating kids about money. What we need is more focus on RESPONISBLE use of money.
5) I disagree that banks should be responsible for education about lending – it’s not possible for them to have an impartial point of view. That’s why there’s small print! People need to read their contracts!
6) I wish I had the jars when I was little – they really help minimize the damage.
7) I knew how the system worked when I was younger – what I was missing was the willingness to work hard – to maintain the money. I’m glad that I can pass on a value for money to my daughter.
9) Sit people in front of ’til debt do us part. There are people from all socio-economic classes there, and I can see myself, my parents, in-laws and co-workers in those people. It’s a great resource that doesn’t turn people off.
10) Great job, Gail. Trying to get people to be accountable for their actions is a tall order and you’re having a real impact on many, many people including myself, my husband, and our 4-year old (who has an allowance and has to pay for her own lunch-box snacks).
April 1, 2009 at 7:34 am
1.) Money management as part of the Math curriculum would serve most students very well…probably better than some current portions of that curriculum.
2.)There should be a money management component throughout the school years…
3.)They should cover spending, planned spending, emergency savings, retirement savings compounding interest and credit
4.) We should all share the role…1st and formost are the parents…demonstrate by example and explanation
5.) When we lend at the banks we go through the lending agreement point by point and are very specific on the details…as the banking officer I also sign the agreement with the client and we both sign the banks copy and the clients copy…we have to give full disclosure on everything..lending and investing…we have strict lending guidelines in place…don’t forget, we are usually the ones to give the consolidation loan and the majority of those loans are made up by other credit debt..i.e. the payday loan places, retail credit cards and that huge monster…buy now pay later!
6.) I had my mother to guide me…she makes Gail look like a pussy cat!..LOL…we need to give our kids the “Gail” treatment…(in fact in my job as Financial Services Rep my colleagues will often say, Oh, that client needs the “Gail” treatment!….and we do talk to them in “Gail” language because it is easy for them to grasp and it makes good sense!)
7.) I should have been the full time worker and my husband the stay at home…2 years ago we made this change and it was then we realized we should have done it sooner…( he never had health benefits and I would have…those benefits can make a huge financial difference)
8.) Stricter lending guidelines for the retail chains and private lending companies…get rid of the payday loan places and the buy now pay later “deal”
9.) Bring them in for a talk appointment with a financial rep at a bank..we will sit down with pen and paper and spell it all out for you and help you achieve these goals…TDDUP should be shown in Math class!…Kids love T.V., it focuses on money and basic math…a perfect match!
10.) Gail’s no nonsense approach to finance and life is great…just the other day I had a client come to me to see about overdraft protection on her account to pay a debt that went to collections..at 21% interest overdraft was not for her and she would not qualify for any other credit product at a lower rate…my advice to her?? getting revolving credit to pay for past credit was NOT a good idea for her, (which I did tell her), then my recommendation was to work more hours at work to make extra $..to sell something, or to ask her father for the loan (if she was going to ask her dad for the loan I advised her to go to him with a detailed payback plan that included interest and post dated cheqs to show him up front her committment to repaying his loan)…Gail I wish I could be your “co-star” for a day!!…You are the best!!
April 1, 2009 at 7:41 am
Gail, I know that money is discussed in certain classes in schools. From kindergarten on up they talk about money, learning how to count, learning historically about the fur trade and and barter, learning of other countries forms of currency etc. BUT there isn’t anywhere in the curriculum that money is actually a course where you learn how to manage your life.
There are business classes which deal with aspects of how to use excel sheets and to learn these skills they do accounting type problems to learn. There is only one course in high school which deals with managing personal resources HIP3E, which covers some of the topics about how to understand how money works in our society and it’s for workplace students – not anyone going into university. In some of the math classes they need to work out how to find the borrowing costs of loans, and sometimes I’ve heard of classes learning how to complete income tax forms. There is an accounting course as well in grade 11 and/or 12 where students do manage to learn the basics of journal keeping etc. That being said, there isn’t a foolproof way to guarantee that all students go through this learning curve because of the curriculum requirements for each pathway – workplace, college and university.
In each and every course there are central or overall expectations to cover and then there are the minor or specific topics which can be covered. It can be very time intensive to cover all that is in the curriculum expectations. Teaching these concepts takes place right up to just before the exams!!
If teachers individually want to find ways to incorporate money skills into their classes they are doing it without being told to in the curriculum documents.
Philosophically, it isn’t easy to say that students should learn everything from their parents. Not all parents know enough themselves or how to approach these issues. Gail, anyone who reads your articles is getting an ecucation which is well rounded and directed to specific needs. You are the money educator for parents.
One course in high school is called Parenting. Of course, it is taught from the nurturing angle – how to take care and understand the needs of babies, what is necessary to know about raising children, what you should be doing to socialize children and to teach them how to behave with each other in a child care centre etc. Money isn’t taught in this course as far as I’m aware even though all children should learn from parents about money.
Students also suffer from over exposure to what might be called “relevant themes” across the curriculum. Career exploration in each individual subject course became an issue at one time.
There is – as an aside – a great package from the Mint about how to tell fake money from the real thing. Teachers can access this package for free and the students like it.
There is so much more which could be said, but no time right now.
April 1, 2009 at 8:48 am
[...] note: Canadian financial guru Gail Vaz-Oxlade has posted a survey about kids and money this morning. If you’re in Canada, go help her out by answering the [...]
April 1, 2009 at 9:01 am
1. To a certain degree, yes. They need to bring back home economics.
2. The last few years before high school. I’m not sure where it would fit in a high school program.
3. In no particular order: basic accounting, budget planning, that debt today means less for tomorrow, productive debt versus consumption debt, interest and compounding, basic economics.
4. Like Canada’s food guide, all (special interest) groups should have an influence on the curricula followed.
5. Not necessarily–buyer beware. People need to be held accountable for their actions, and that includes bad money management. Pushing the blame on financial institutions would create a detachment of responsibility. That being said, financial institutions should be held accountable if they lie or cheat, but this is already the case.
6. Budgeting, saving, without the use of credit (especially for consumption goods).
7. Could have saved more, and have more saved thanks to compounding.
8. Another great depression. I’m not kidding. You learn to appreciate money, and how to manage it, when you’ve had to do without . It’s the necessity of adversity.
9. The Wealthy Barber, The Millionaire Next Door, Economics In One Lesson, ‘Til Debt Do Us Part.
10. In a broader theme than money management, I think schools should be teaching basic economics. It helps to understand motives, incentives, coordination, costs versus benefits, etc. Teaching money management without economics to me is like teaching arithmetic without mathematics (e.g., geomerty, music, logic).
April 1, 2009 at 9:03 am
1. Do you think schools should teach children how money works and how to manage it?
Yes.
2. At what grade do you believe this education should begin? And end?
I think it should start in early elementary school (grade 3) and end after high school graduation. I don’t think it’s the universities’ place to teach money management skills in the classroom.
3. List six topics you think schools should cover when it comes to teaching money management.
(not in order) Compounding interest (both in your favour and not), how to negotiate, how to build a budget. Sorry, that’s only 3/4!
4. What role do you think others (parents, bankers, community groups) should play in the education of our kids, specifically about money?
I think parents need to take primary responsibility for financial education, but schools should play a role too. I don’t see much of a role for banks/bankers and community groups in financial education, other than banks and RRSPs or the like.
5. Do you agree or disagree with the statement: Financial institutions should be held liable for lending irresponsibly when they don’t “educate” before they lend. (Elaborate if you wish.)
Disagree. Personal responsibility needs to play a big role. Banks investing in shoddy companies or needing government bailouts? Yes, they should be liable. Lending money to someone who can’t or won’t grasp the idea of a budget? No way.
6. What three things about money do you wish you had learned earlier?
a) That a budget doesn’t have to feel like a straightjacket. It’s actually quite freeing to know where your money’s going and that you’re setting things up so you spend money on the things you really value.
b) Read the fine print on your OSAP (or other gov’t) loan. I (and most people I know) assumed that because the money was lent by the government, the repayment terms and interest rates were more favourable than those offered by private institutions. I/we were wrong, and I’m now reaping the consequences of that.
c) There is (much) more cost involved in owning a home than just the mortgage payment. Renting isn’t necessarily “just throwing money away!”, it’s letting someone else assume the risk and responsibility.
7. What mistakes could you have avoided if you’d known more about how money works?
a) Becoming house-poor.
b) Having a large OSAP loan with unfavourable repayment terms.
8. What do you think it will take to change The System and ensure the next generation of adults knows how money works?
Education, education, education. I think schools will have a big role to play for this generation, simply because their parents don’t necessarily have the financial knowledge to pass on.
9. Do you have resources you would recommend to help schools, teachers, parents, help children learn about money?
Gailvazoxlade.com!
April 1, 2009 at 9:05 am
1. Do you think schools should teach children how money works and how to manage it?
Yes – just like home ec was the kind of useful practical class that now seems to have disappeared, money management would be an excellent course, and it doesn’t have to take a huge part of the curriculum, even a unit in math or social studies or home ec would be very beneficial.
2. At what grade do you believe this education should begin? And end?
I’d say the basics of counting and so forth in elementary, and the more adult part maybe grade 7 – 9 when students have access to earned money through babysitting, part-time jobs, etc. and have the capacity to understand things like compound interest.
3. List six topics you think schools should cover when it comes to teaching money management.
-how to budget
-how interest works
-basics of financial products (loans, rrsps, resps, mortgages, etc.)
-role of consumption in our society… that’s all that comes to mind
4. What role do you think others (parents, bankers, community groups) should play in the education of our kids, specifically about money?
Well, they should be responsible givers of advice and lessons – but that would mean a degree of altruism that I think is hard to come by these days…
5. Do you agree or disagree with the statement: Financial institutions should be held liable for lending irresponsibly when they don’t “educate” before they lend. (Elaborate if you wish.)
Agree.
6. What three things about money do you wish you had learned earlier?
-How interest really kills you (ok, how interest really works)
Other than that, I think I learned well from my parents who are very conservative and frugal – they’ve never in their lives not paid a credit card bill in full.
7. What mistakes could you have avoided if you’d known more about how money works?
I could have avoided being in debt and paying tons of interest.
I could have been better about opening mail, reading the dense text, taking actions when I should of instead of regretting it later.
8. What do you think it will take to change The System and ensure the next generation of adults knows how money works?
Well, the Depression worked for generations past – folks who lived through that tended to pass the lessons they learned along. But obviously the lesson didn’t stick… I am pessimistic when it comes to the innate ability of humans to change their behaviour, I think it takes massive and harsh events to truly affect change. At a micro level this would be losing your house or your kids, at a macro level extended recession or depression. Of course there are exceptions, like many here, but I think Gail’s followers are a minority in western society at large.
9. Do you have resources you would recommend to help schools, teachers, parents, help children learn about money?
There are tons, always have been, 5 minutes on Google would do the trick. I remember when I was a kid there was a cartoon on Saturday mornings about money management, for the life of me I can’t remember what it was called but the theme song went ‘Out we go to spend our dough without our common sense. We’re the dough-NUTs!’ Anyone?
10. What else would you like to say on this topic?
I think the root of it all is a culture that glorifies material excess over almost any other symbol of status – artistic talent, intelligence, kindness, athletic ability, etc. Skill, ability, personality should be held in higher regard than cars, houses, brand-name clothes and vacations. So if we could just fundamentally change our value system everything should work out fine… Let’s tackle that after lunch, shall we
April 1, 2009 at 9:21 am
#9 Juniour Achievement – these folks have a program designed for grade nine students to teach them about the basics of life away from mom and dad. Rent, car payments, gasoline, insurance, registration, saving for emergencies, cost of living, etc. are all covered. The only thing missing is credit and how to avoid the pitfalls of the ‘minimum payment.’
April 1, 2009 at 9:33 am
You know am I the only one who thinks that “home economics” was a waste of time when I took it in grade 8 (in 1988, sigh) and it’s probably still a waste of time? Rename it to Home Finance and remove the kitchen and then teach it from Grade 1 until Grade 12, with exams and grades and all the standard requirements that a physics class has. In Grade 1 teach about wants and needs, and in Grade 12 ask people to calculate the FV of a loan made by a bank today. Throw in weekly lessons from Mike Holmes on home construction and it’s a can’t miss class!
April 1, 2009 at 9:45 am
We were just talking about this in the staffroom the other day. I teach at the middle school level and I take opportunities when teaching career guidance, to talk about money as much as we can. There definitely needs to be formal classes in the High School about what money is, how it works, how to save, how to interpret what interest will do if you take out a loan or save etc. “Money” has been removed from the new math curriculums and that is very sad.
I would respectfully disagree with Geoff on the removing of the kitchen in Home Ec classes. Take a look at the statistics for take out/eating out and add to that the number of folk who buy processed foods that are mostly just heat and serve and jammed packed full of sodium and fat. Our days are busier and (in general) people are losing the ability to cook simple nutritious foods at home.
April 1, 2009 at 9:49 am
1. Yes!
2. Simple instruction and discussion can begin in the early grades, 1,2, or 3, but more detailed explanations and understanding can happen in grades 5 and 6.
3. four topics to discuss in school: budgeting, saving, planning, investing,
4. Families should be responsible in teaching children through the family’s experience (saving for holidays or trips, planning how to spend, how to save).
5. Agree with the statement.
6. Budgeting, spend what you can afford, save.
7. More saving, less debt.
8. We need to convince kids to spend only what they can afford and save for things they can’t. The days of deficit financing have to stop.
9. No.
10. This is definitely something that should be taught starting in the early years and most definitely by high school years. Children should be taught about saving and investing, how the system and economy works, and real world problems (ie, the current global financial crisis).
April 1, 2009 at 10:06 am
1. Do you think schools should teach children how money works and how to manage it?
yes
2. At what grade do you believe this education should begin? And end?
As soon as they start learning math, they could start understanding the basics of money. I seem to recall using coins to learn addition/subtraction etc. in primary grades. As for when it should end, I think graduation from high school would be ideal. Like other subjects, as kids get older, and can understand more abstract concepts, economics, credit etc. can be taught. I recall making up a budget in my grade 9 accounting class and it was an eye opener. My best friend took economics and they learned about credit. However, this class was not mandatory, so not everyone got this lesson.
3. List six topics you think schools should cover when it comes to teaching money management.
-day to day budgeting (including a real understanding of how much it costs to live-assign kids to research costs of rent, food, utilities, and assign an imaginary “paycheque” so they have a sense of how much comes out in taxes/deductions, and how much they have to live on; compare different wages and different situations, include someone who has to live on government benefits to open up kids eyes to why they should want to avoid this like the plague if they can help it)
-how to save money–> i.e., by learning basic skills like cooking/meal planning, sewing, basic car maintenance etc. not spending before you earn it (i.e., the jar system!) I see this as meaning that all the kids (including the the university-bound) should have to take home ec/auto shop or something in place of an academic course since there are only so many hours in a day
-long-term savings–>why this is important, retirement, compound interest etc. this could be in math class-do the arithmetic to figure out compound interest in the context of saving and in debt
-how to responsibly take on debt (i.e., school debt-figure out how much you can handle on the expected income you’ll have when you’re done and then only take on that much, find other ways to make up the slack etc.) essentially, have a plan to pay back what you owe, don’t just delay gratification
-what money is and what money isn’t (i.e. it is a means of exchanging energy-compare historically to bartering etc., and is NOT a means of validating yourself, making others feel small, keeping up with the Joneses etc.
-how to share money to help the less fortunate (i.e., make a fundraising drive part of a few classes-researching a cause, writing a proposal/plan, marketing the efforts, accounting when the money comes in, etc.)
-consequences of not saving/getting too far into debt (including financial, emotional, relationships, personal security and well-being etc.)
4. What role do you think others (parents, bankers, community groups) should play in the education of our kids, specifically about money?
Like all things within the school system, I think parents should play the primary role. For some kids, hopefully the above would be redundant, because the parents have already taught them these things. Community groups like credit counsellors etc. could be utlized for prevention (i.e., teaching these skills so fewer people need bankruptcy or consumer proposals) and banks could provide tools for understanding money and making the day to day interactions understandable.
5. Do you agree or disagree with the statement: Financial institutions should be held liable for lending irresponsibly when they don’t “educate” before they lend. (Elaborate if you wish.)
Agree. Lending irresponsibly costs us all, as we are now seeing on a global level. I’m a huge proponent for personal responsibility, but giving a teenager without any source of income access to a huge line of credit or numerous credit cards is absurd. Yes, it is in the fine print, but a lot of that is mumbo jumbo to kids who haven’t learned the basics from home or school. I think they should have to engage in informed consent-a concept that is prevalent in health care. You can’t treat someone without ensuring they understand the risks and benefits of the treatment. The banks should clearly outline how long the term is, what the person has to pay each month, what the costs of borrowing are over time, any alternatives to borrowing the money, the risks they incur by borrowing versus using money in hand, the % of their income they will be using to pay the debt etc.
6. What three things about money do you wish you had learned earlier?
What mistakes could you have avoided if you’d known more about how money works?
-how to budget for the “unexpected”
-when the right time to buy a house would be
-organizational skills to keep track of expenses, pay bills on time etc.
7 . What do you think it will take to change The System and ensure the next generation of adults knows how money works?
We have to lead by example to begin with. Why should we expect our kids to manage money properly if we are living in debt and not doing anything about i? We have to make money and debt not a taboo subject, and share age appropriate information with children as they grow up so they understand how money comes in and out. We have to get rid of the sense of entitlement that leads to overspending and debt. We have to value delaying gratification.
8. Do you have resources you would recommend to help schools, teachers, parents, help children learn about money?
The Weathy Barber-my aunt gave me this as a teenager, and I read and understood it, and took some of the tenets to heart. (I should probably re-read it now!)
TDDUP-I have learned a lot watching the show, and I think my parents did a pretty good job with teaching me about money. Kids often respond to TV shows more than lectures.
Teach everyone the jars!!
Goal setting skills can be taught. This can come into play in many areas, money being one.
9. What else would you like to say on this topic?
I struggle a bit when I hear “they should teach that in school” about numerous topics. Obviously, if we feel passionate about a subject, we want to see everyone benefit from what we know. However, I have teachers in my family, and they have commented that now they are not only expected to educate children in academics, but also parent them also. Without more hours in the day or more resources, this is an impossible expectation. As a society, we have to prioritize what we want all kids to know about, not unlike prioritizing what we spend our money on. For example, while I think history is important, does every kid have to know about the War of 1812 to be a functioning and productive citizen? (this is not intended to debate that history should disappear from the curriculum-just an example to make a point). Essentially, it’s not saying that something is not important, but putting the most important info up front, and letting the rest be optional. If we, as a society, value good money management skills and we believe there is a greater value to teaching them in school than leaving it to the parents, it should be required. However, what do we sacrifice in the school day to accomplish this goal? Everything is a trade-off. What do we value less as a society? These are tough questions with many opinions to consider.
Thanks for bringing this issue to the forefront Gail! I’m sure valuable discussions will ensue, and such mobilization can lead to great results!
April 1, 2009 at 10:09 am
1 – Do you think schools should teach children how money works and how to manage it?
ABSOLUTELY
2 – At what grade do you believe this education should begin? And end?
Money and Money management should be taught in every level.
3 – List six topics you think schools should cover when it comes to teaching money management.
What a Budget is
How to manage a budget
Basics of financial products (loans, rrsps, resps, mortgages, etc.)
Compounding interest (for both savings and borrowing)
Taxes
The benefits of Deferred Gratification (Saving)
The benefits of giving
- it is hard to teach self control… But it would be nice if kids were taught that when they leave their parents’ home that the ‘STUFF’ in that home were acquired over a long period of time and that as adults you won’t have all of that stuff right away
4 – What role do you think others (parents, bankers, community groups) should play in the education of our kids, specifically about money?
Parents should primarily be the source of education for Money, but as you can see by the number of followers you have that obviously hasn’t been working… By schools making this part of their corriculum, it opens the door for parent/child interaction.
5 – Do you agree or disagree with the statement: Financial institutions should be held liable for lending irresponsibly when they don’t “educate” before they lend. (Elaborate if you wish.)
They should not have to educate them.
6 – What three things about money do you wish you had learned earlier?
Budgets
Real costs of living
That saving 10% (from the time of my first job) is very important
7 – What mistakes could you have avoided if you’d known more about how money works?
I would not be in debt (to the same degree I currently am)
8 – What do you think it will take to change The System and ensure the next generation of adults knows how money works?
Education – Do you think that if University students knew that they would not be able to buy a home because of their student loans UP FRONT that they would still accept and use all that money the government and lenders were willing to give them?
9 – Do you have resources you would recommend to help schools, teachers, parents, help children learn about money?
I am certain there is a ton of material available… Your no nonsense approach to money has been helpful for many…
10 – What else would you like to say on this topic?
It takes a village to raise a child… How can educating kids be a bad thing?
April 1, 2009 at 10:18 am
1. Do you think schools should teach children how money works and how to manage it?
Yes. I think this would help a lot of kids out. Even if they’re getting some good advice at home, more skills cannot hurt.
2. At what grade do you believe this education should begin? And end?
I think it could be introduced as early as kindgergarten, and continue throughout grade 12.
3. List six topics you think schools should cover when it comes to teaching money management.
How to manage different types of credit (credit cards, student loans, car payments, mortgage, etc.), the importance of saving & that material things can only make you happy to a certain point, how interest can work for AND against you, , that you always have choices (eg different bank packages, etc.), that YOU should take charge of your finances – no one else will care as much as you do, and investment basics… what stocks are, what bonds are, and so on.
4. What role do you think others (parents, bankers, community groups) should play in the education of our kids, specifically about money?
I think that many parents sadly don’t have a clue how to manage their money, and bring kids into this world even when they shouldn’t because they’re financially unprepared. Banks are out for profit, so they’ll give credit cards to students easily (been there, done that). Maybe I’m a bit jaded, but sadly we can’t count on these people/groups to make the right choices. I think having a good, solid financial program in K-12 would help immensely. I took this thing called “CALM” (Career & Life Mgmt) in grade 11 or 12, and it really was pretty useless… too little too late.
5. Do you agree or disagree with the statement: Financial institutions should be held liable for lending irresponsibly when they don’t “educate” before they lend. (Elaborate if you wish.)
I don’t think so. I believe that the onus should be on the customer. If I am approved for a $7,000 loan and rack it up, that’s my fault and I have to pay it back. I do however think it would be better if some credit card agreements & other clauses were written in PLAIN ENGLISH.
6. What three things about money do you wish you had learned earlier?
It takes a LOT longer to pay off debt than you’d think. Material things won’t make you happier unless you CAN afford them. Budgeting isn’t bad… it’s a means to financial control & can actually be a lot of fun, it does take discipline, but it’s worth it.
7. What mistakes could you have avoided if you’d known more about how money works?
I would have been more cautious with credit. I knew I had to pay it back, but I just didn’t realize what I was doing to myself. Luckily I’m still young and am fixing my mistakes and making progress. I didn’t realize the value of money and how important it is to save.
8. What do you think it will take to change The System and ensure the next generation of adults knows how money works?
I think that the educaton program (K-12) will have to be revamped. Teaching kids about money has to start EARLY and continue to grade 12. Topics covered need to be relevant to the particular age group so kids understand. I don’t know if personal finance would have to be a whole course, or if it could somehow be worked into the curriculum in another fashion, but I think dedicating a set amount of time per week to personal finance will do wonders for the next generation.
9. Do you have resources you would recommend to help schools, teachers, parents, help children learn about money?
I think the internet offers a lot of great advice. Anything from MSN.ca to GetRichSlowly.org. Lots of easy, practical advice is covered in these sites. There are SO MANY good resources out there.
10. What else would you like to say on this topic?
I guess just teach them while they’re young, and make it practical. I was told getting into debt was bad, but it still happened to me. I don’t think there’s any magical “cure”, just education, and repeating what’s best. Repeat it from K-12.
April 1, 2009 at 10:23 am
When I was in grade 11 in Nova Scotia (2001) we had a class called CALM/PAL which stood for career and life management/physically active living. It was a requirement to graduate high school. In CALM we had the budget project. We had to search the newspapers for a job (that we were qualified for with our grade 10/11 education) and an apartment. Work out what we would make (minus taxes) and budget a months worth of spending. Credit cards weren’t included in any of this (no type of planned or unplanned spending was), it was mostly heat, electric, groceries, cable etc, to give us an idea of why we need a higher education and that while dropping out of school to make $11/hour may seem like a good idea at the time (our high school had a very low graduate to student percentage) but in the long run it wasn’t worth it. I enjoyed the project, but I don’t know if I took anything away from it (higher education was drilled into me as a child… I didn’t know university was an option, in our household it came after high school… and the more I think of the budget project, the more it seems like a joke… the budget had to balance, but didn’t include anything like car repairs, or medical expenses or buying new clothes) That’s the only part of the course I remember. While I think it was on the right track, it needs to be more in depth (explaining credit/student loans etc)
As for credit card companies being liable there are two sides. I totally agree people need to be responsible for their actions. But I also agree that some credit card companies are feeding on people who are uneducated. The documentary Maxed Out talked about how credit card companies hand out credit to teenagers at university. (along with free t-shirts and other paraphernalia) The credit card companies pay the university a cut for every student they sign up, which is why they’re allowed to solicit on campus. My brother was one of the people who signed up for a free t-shirt (and they even put a picture of our university on the card!). His limit was $1000 to start, and once he maxed it out and started to miss payments, they kept increasing it. It got up to $4000 and he didn’t even have a job. I on the other hand (studying for a mathematics degree and knowing about interest rates etc) went to a reputable bank and applied for a student credit card. I was approved for $500 and over the entire life span of that credit card it was only ever increased to $1000. Even after I was out of university and working full time, my request for a credit increase was denied (it’s hard to buy a $1200 plane ticket to Europe online when your limit is $1000….) because of my student loans. In hind sight, that was the best thing the bank could have done for me. I didn’t need credit that high and I ended up buying my ticket through a travel agent and paid cash. While I am credit card debt free, my brother is still struggling with his… I feel all of this could have been prevented and that the company should be somewhat liable for his situation. When he started missing payments, they increased his credit without him requesting it. I’m not saying my brother should get off scott free, but I really feel someone should be fighting so that these situations (which are all too common) don’t happen again and again.
April 1, 2009 at 11:16 am
1.)Do you think schools should teach children how money works and how to manage it?
Not only do I think it would benefit kids by learning about money in the school curriculum, I think it is something that the kids would truly be interested in learning about, not to mention something that they can truly relate to, unlike the other topics currently being covered in today’s programming. I don’t know the last time I had to use the quadratic equation, or when I was trying to find out if a train was running north at a speed of 60 km/hr, and another train was running south at 80 km/hr…. lol. Furthermore, these kids could use these learning’s not only to benefit their future relationship with money, but perhaps aid in curbing the habits, or better school their parents with the fundamentals that they acquire.
2.)At what grade do you believe this education should begin? And end?
I believe the earlier you teach children about the aspects of money, the better. The concept of money itself could be taught as early as grade one. Teaching the aspect of learning that once money is gone, it’s gone. Concepts would be age appropriate, using simple skills like having $20 and going to the grocery store, and using subtracting and addition to find out how many groceries can be purchased. This is a learning experience that not only is familiar to children, but is something that I think they would be interested in and could closely relate to. These types of skills could be taught throughout grades 1 – 8, then in high school there could also be money related courses if teens so inclined to pursue learning. I believe however, there should be at least one or two mandatory classes that should be taken in the high school curriculum. Learning the value of money is so important, so by teaching this at an early age, I believe that the younger generation would have a better respect of the whole saving/spending process. I only wish I had learned these lessons early on in life. God knows my financial planner would look a lot different now. And let’s be honest, I probably would have never asked for assistance from yourself had I attained these skills early on, and throughout my life.
3.) List six topics you think schools should cover when it comes to teaching money management.
- The Safety Net ( The Values of Saving)
- Wants and Needs (Budgeting for what you can afford)
- I’m not Retiring any Time Soon (Why RRSP’s are beneficial)
- Cha Ching (Credit Card Spending and the Big Picture)
- High Risk and Low Risk Options (Putting Money Into Stocks)
- Coupon Clipper (Cost Cutting Ideas, Options, Alternatives)
4.)What role do you think others (parents, bankers, community groups) should play in the education of our kids, specifically about money?
I believe, or I should say know that parents have a major role in establishing the way their children view and learn about the value of money. Which is why it’s so important to lead by example. I don’t believe that kids should know about all their parents financial business, but by perhaps showing them a monthly budget on necessities that need to be paid, ie mortgage, car loan, water, hydro, then seeing all the additional requirements (groceries, food) I believe they will have a better understanding as to why parents say No to certain things when we do. Financial institutions could have kid days, where kids could go in and learn about opening their own account and how to deposit their money. Just baby steps in the process of learning how to manage money.
5.)Do you agree or disagree with the statement: Financial institutions should be held liable for lending irresponsibly when they don’t “educate” before they lend.
I agree that financial institutions should be held liable for lending irresponsibility when they don’t educate before hand. In desperate times, people are just looking for the “yes” answer. Yes we will loan x amount of dollars to you, but they don’t necessarily show you the flip side of what happens if you don’t make your payments on time. The banking institutions have all the necessary information to assess whether or not someone would be a good candidate to lend money, however, my beliefs are that these institutions are focused more on their own gains, than the potential downfalls of the client.
6.) What three things about money do you wish you had learned earlier?
- How beneficial RRSP’s are to your whole financial portfolio
- Using Cash instead of Credit. Establishing the difference between wants and needs.
- Establishing a Safety Net for Emergencies
7.)What mistakes could you have avoided if you’d known more about how money works?
I could have avoided the credit card debt that I have incurred over the past several years. I would have also benefited from knowing that if I don’t have the money now, I probably won’t have it later, hence not being able to pay the credit card off when it’s due. Knowing that having a safety net to fall back on in case of emergencies is so important. It not only makes you feel secure inside, it also aids in the fact that credit will not have to be used in a time of crisis.
8.) What do you think it will take to change The System and ensure the next generation of adults knows how money works?
Looking at the market today, there’s hopefully a chance or an opportunity to seize the moment to start to pinpoint how we as a society can make things better. Education and planning, coupled with the fundamentals of money management would not only benefit every day living, but would teach a new generation how to avoid the pitfalls and the mistakes that are presently being made, resulting in the outcome that is presented before us today. If The System cannot see that there needs to be a change NOW, especially with the reflection of today’s society, I’d say we’re all in big trouble.
9.) Do you have resources you would recommend to help schools, teachers, parents, help children learn about money?
One of the best resources that I can think of would be, um YOU. Being a guest speaker and just talking openly to kids about money and their questions. Just having someone with your knowledge, background and experience (not to mention a known celebrity seen on TV) I believe kids would take a keen interest and be attentive to learning about money and finances.
Maybe to schedule a trip to the local Banking Institution, to show the process of how money works. How a bank card works, how cheques work, different money currencies, bonds, GIC’s, things that kids hear about, but not necessarily understand how they work.
Talking in class about newspaper articles regarding the economic crisis. Understanding the economic pressures, cutbacks, and shortfalls that we are all facing. Putting real stories to information that they learn about. Making sense of valuable actions and lessons that they learn, to show that being knowledgeable can make a difference from being on either side of the coin.
10.) What else would you like to say on this topic?
I think I’ve been quite long winded already on this topic. I just can’t stress how important and valuable it would be to our children’s education to adopt the financial fundamentals, or smarts if you will, throughout their growing years. The way society has been credit card dependable, spending on wants instead of focusing on needs, this got to have it attitude has to stop somewhere. And perhaps if we can teach children to learn these values, then maybe, we can change the way future generations reflect upon choices and money making decisions.
April 1, 2009 at 11:17 am
1. YES! If we want our kids to be successful and happy in life we need to give them the tools to deal with the thing that our society revolves around…money!
2. This should start at about the middle school age (age 12) and run throughout high school. For example, when kids start to earn some income from allowance, babysitting, part time jobs, etc. and start to realize that the brand name jeans they want cost $115, and how many hours of work to earn it.
3. 6 topics to cover:
The basic costs of running a household,
What a budget is & how it works,
How to save & why is is beneficial to start young,
How various types credit work (including mortgages) & understanding your credit score,
How all types of financial institutions operate and what they offer,
What retirement costs and how to save for it.
4. Parents have the ultimate responsibility to ensure that their kids have the financial tools they need, but schools and our community also should support the education of our kids regarding money by cotinuing to educate kids in the importance of being financially responsible. I do not see the banks fitting in here are in the business of making money. They do their part when it is time to get a loan, rrsp, etc.
5. Disagree! As a former Lender, I have learned that people will learn what they want to learn from the bankers. Some are interested in listening to recommended strategies & the terms & conditions of banking products/services, while others are just bored and anxiously waiting to sign on dotted line to get the loan to buy the latest thing. Individuals need to take personal repsonsibility for their actions and to learn about banking/lending. Banks/Credit Unions are already legislated to disclose EVERYTHING and do so diligently. Pay attention people, ask questions, read your contracts.
6. I wish I: a) knew how much student debt I was accumulating through university. b) realized earlier how extremely beneficial it is to start saving early c) how easy & stress-free it can be to save for the things you want before purchasing them.
7. I would have avoided the mistake of borrowing so much money while in university. I maxed out my credit card & borrowed more through student loans than I really needed all while having a GREAT time & not realizing at all how much it would cost in the end & how long I would be paying it off.
8. To change the system, people need to STOP their reliance on credit to buy stuff they don’t need. To do this we need to EDUCATE people on the true costs of the stuff they want when paying on credit and teach them how to save for the things they want. We need to stop being such a greedy society & stop for a minute to truly appeciate the things we already do have. There should be tighter regulations in place on secondary lenders and retail credit companies.
9. Resources: Statistics Canada has information about income, spending, & wealth as well as prices to show kids what it costs to live on your own, Financial Planners can provide information about budgeting & saving, Banks/Credit Unions can provide great information about credit/credit scores, and most of all *People* who have learned the hard way – from experience.
10. I agree with Gail that it is pathetic that in 2009, our education systems do not have any material dealing with money – something that can be central to a persons’ happiness & well-being in life. We teach our kids about health, nutrition, history, science, etc. but we do not teach them how to manage their life-long relationship with money. How can this be!?!!?!!
April 1, 2009 at 11:23 am
As the parent of 2 boy 22 and 19 and a girl aged 8 I have long been a proponent of teaching money facts in school. I have been very vocal in trying to teach them money sense but it has not gotten through to them. They are not very good at depriving themselves for the sake of savings or even at saving for a want.
I would start around Grade 3 and not just dry topics but meaningful issues that the kids can equate to daily living. One of the first things that needs to be taught is taxes. They need to understand that taxes come off first and you don’t have gross pay to set your budget. Then they need to understand the real cost of living. My kids understand the cost of a car loan, rent and possibly car insurance but do not contemplate car repairs, gas, etc. They need to understand the cost of groceries vs. restaurant eating. In keeping with this I am a big fan of Home Ec. We are losing the ability to cook good food at home and it’s hard to find classes to teach adults basic cooking skills. It is imperative that the kids are prepared for the onslaught of credit cards and buy now pay later deals that they are faced with as they get older. I believe that more complicated lessons on interest, financing, investing, etc. is important but we need to build the foundation so that they can move on to this. As in other instances with our kids, parents should be the first avenue to teach this information but sometimes they don’t have the knowledge or the willingness to do it. Also, my experience is anything taught by the teacher (when they were younger) held more credibility to the kids than when their parents said it.
We must return to the basics and then build from there. Heck, I would sign up for some of these courses!
Leslie
April 1, 2009 at 11:27 am
Do you think schools should teach children how money works and how to manage it?
(seriously, which two things get most people in the most trouble?)
Yes!
At what grade do you believe this education should begin? And end?
It should begin in Kindergarten and end in 12th grade. Just like sex-ed.
List six topics you think schools should cover when it comes to teaching money management.
1. Budgeting; 2. Credit including the dangers of compound interest; 3. Contracts–what happens when you sign on the line and the repercussions if you don’t follow through; 4. Interest and compounding– we learned in math class- but how that works out for loans and savings; 5. good personal financial planning (e.g, emergency funds vs. credit cards, irregular expenses, investing for long term); 6. Sharing with others
What role do you think others (parents, bankers, community groups) should play in the education of our kids, specifically about money?
As a parent, I talk about it a lot with my kids. Bankers would be nice if they had more information for kids (like ING’s planet orange) but most are more interested in making loans.
Do you agree or disagree with the statement: Financial institutions should be held liable for lending irresponsibly when they don’t “educate” before they lend. (Elaborate if you wish.)
I do think the terms are so complicated and people don’t really understand– how many people actually read through all those pages when signing a mortgage? In the US every loan states clearly in large type: how much this loan will cost you, but people only want to hear how much it is a month.
What three things about money do you wish you had learned earlier?
Real budgeting and spending plans– how to save for irregular expenses that don’t come up once a month– how much 100 a month turns into if you start at age 20. That would have been a very nice thing to know.
What mistakes could you have avoided if you’d known more about how money works?
I think I’d have forced myself to save a lot more. If i’d learned more about how to deal with irregular expenses and how truly large a credit hole can become that would have probably kept me in better shape.
What do you think it will take to change The System and ensure the next generation of adults knows how money works?
I really think it should be a required class at least at the 12th grade level before kids are legally able to sign contracts.
Do you have resources you would recommend to help schools, teachers, parents, help children learn about money?
I think Dave Ramsey’s Total Money Makeover is certainly clear enough for a high-schooler to read. I like Planet Orange at ING for kids.
What else would you like to say on this topic?
It’s too important to ignore. I think people are way too quiet about finances– My son was saying he wished we had enough money to buy Donatoes pizza like some of his friends, and I said, honey, we do have enough for that. You can’t tell what people have by what they spend… and we had a long discussion about that. I think kids don’t realize that a lot of people can’t afford the things they have and many could afford things they choose not to spend on. They just see the outside picture. A little more transparency would help with that.
April 1, 2009 at 11:44 am
1. 1. Do you think schools should teach children how money works and how to manage it?
yes!!! not a question, and it should be mandatory.
2. At what grade do you believe this education should begin? And end?
start at grade primary (first year of school with basic info like Gail suggests, and not end til grad year) there’s lots to know
3. List six topics you think schools should cover when it comes to teaching money management. 1-how to budget! 2-how to save 3-how to prioritize spending 4-how much to save/spend 5-ask questions when borrowing 6-how interest works (for and against you)
4. What role do you think others (parents, bankers, community groups) should play in the education of our kids, specifically about money?
Parents need to teach kids the value of money. Banks need to be more involved and send out readable newsletters about budgeting and not about the market. Churches need to stress the negative impact of greed on our society (I’m religious, and our priest has mentioned this a couple times..)
5. Do you agree or disagree with the statement: Financial institutions should be held liable for lending irresponsibly when they don’t “educate” before they lend. (Elaborate if you wish.)
yes, perhaps making people take a short seminar before borrowing would deter the careless person, and help the people who really need it!
6. What three things about money do you wish you had learned earlier?
HOW TO BUDGET, how to borrow, how and when to save
7. What mistakes could you have avoided if you’d known more about how money works?
overspending, careless borrowing
8. What do you think it will take to change The System and ensure the next generation of adults knows how money works?
EDUCATION!!! I had a young girl in today who clears $400/wk and never has any money, I cringed and gave her a quick Gail lesson in not spending, making a lunch, quitting smoking, and budgeting…she probably thinks I’m crazy, but she said she needed the info…so I jokingly told her when she came back I’d give her another lesson. I just told her I used to do the same things and wished I had learned earlier.
9. Do you have resources you would recommend to help schools, teachers, parents, help children learn about money?
perhaps this website. I know I have learned a TON of info from it. and perhaps someone average who learned the hard way who is not afraid of telling their financial story. whatever the resource it has to be very simple and straight forward because people are lazy and closed-minded when it comes to money
10. What else would you like to say on this topic?
I would love to see a shift in the way people treat money! Imagine the world of happy (financially stable) people!!!….
April 1, 2009 at 12:00 pm
Here’s a tip on teaching kids about money: The Cash Flow for Kids Game, put out by the Rich Dad company (Robert Kiyosaki) is great at teaching kids about understanding income vs debt , multiple sources of income and spending choices. The very first time we finished playing it, my 10 year old turned to me and said : “We don’t have any balance on our credit card do we?” How’s that for a quick life lesson? The game costs about $80 but if your kids only play it twice, and learn from it, I think it’s worth it. I’m going to show it to our son’s teacher and try to get the school to consider it….
April 1, 2009 at 12:14 pm
1.I absolutely think they should. Too many parents (in my opinion) are really slacking on this issue, especially since most parents seem unable to manage their own money themselves! I think a curriculum written specifically for this topic and its issues could do nothing but benefit the future generation.
2. I think any time before 5th grade may be too soon. Sixth or Seventh grade I believe would be a good time to begin. At that age children are capable of being introduced to more mature topics, such as money management, without being thrown off schedule, and still understand as long as the topic is taught well. Education on money management should probably end in grade 10, as most students prefer to take more topics centering on their specific career goals, however I believe it should still be more actively covered in business courses in higher grades.
3.a)Investment b) Taxes!! c)Mortgages/Home Ownership d)Savings/Bonds e)RRSP’s/RESP’s f)BUDGETING
4.I think that parents need to step it up in terms of teaching kids about the economic reality we’re living in. My own brother is only thirteen, yet manages his money like a champion, while I have nineteen year old friends who seem to be “perpetually broke”. It’s not a coincidence that people who have NOT been taught these life skills have these problems. I think bankers need to be more involved and give “youths” more responsibility when it comes to their own money. Simply getting their parents to sign the papers for their first savings account and hoping the child understands is NOT enough.
5.I don’t believe they should be held liable for the money that is lost/not repaid. However, don’t you think a company that educated its users on proper lending and repayment would benefit it completely? If a lender’s users know the rules, perhaps the company would ultimately lose less money!
6. 1. Taxes. My parents have always done my income tax, so I *still* really have no idea how it works. 2.RRSP’s… I wish I’d been told more about how they work, and the benefits of beginning one early. 3.I still wish I knew more about mortgages and how they work as well.
7. I don’t think I’ve made any terrible mistakes with my money… my parents taught me everything I know and needed to know about saving and spending my money wisely, likely the reason I’ve never spoken the words “I’m broke” despite being a first year universtiy student!
8. It will most certainly take government involvement, as well as increased awareness of the issue amongst parents, community leaders and guardians everywhere, as well as bankers and loan arrangers. Increased involvement on every side of the future generation’s lives will be absolutely crucial.
9. Hm… Clone Gail and send her everywhere
. Seriously though, I believe the trusted “names” in money management should be set to work writing a curriculum for these issues to be used in schools, as well as wares that parents can use to teach their children at home, perhaps while they are younger.
10. I wish an idea like this had been brought up sooner! I think it’s a fantastic idea and hope that, with enough interest, it will be implemented!
April 1, 2009 at 12:20 pm
1. Do you think schools should teach children how money works and how to manage it?
Yes, absolutely!
2. At what grade do you believe this education should begin? And end?
I think it should start in kindergarten and continue all the way through.
3. List six topics you think schools should cover when it comes to teaching money management.
1 – Budgeting
2 – Compound interest
3 – Credit scores and applying for credit
4 – Taxes
5 – Long-term saving strategies
6 – The stock market
4. What role do you think others (parents, bankers, community groups) should play in the education of our kids, specifically about money?
Parents are always their children’s first teachers, and their attitudes about money will impact their children more than anything else. I don’t think they have a formal role, but they play a very large part.
5. Do you agree or disagree with the statement: Financial institutions should be held liable for lending irresponsibly when they don’t “educate” before they lend. (Elaborate if you wish.)
I don’t think they should be held legally liable in most cases, but I certainly do feel it’s irresponsible and public censure of some type is warranted.
6. What three things about money do you wish you had learned earlier?
1 – That financial advisers often place their own interests ahead of your own.
2 – How to set up a proper emergency fund.
3 – Why a big tax refund isn’t a great thing.
7. What mistakes could you have avoided if you’d known more about how money works?
No answer.
8. What do you think it will take to change The System and ensure the next generation of adults knows how money works?
I think the current economic crisis might be a wake-up call for a lot of people. At least, I’m hoping that will be some good to come out of this.
9. Do you have resources you would recommend to help schools, teachers, parents, help children learn about money?
No.
April 1, 2009 at 12:32 pm
My kids have had debit cards since they each were 6 years old. That way they understand how that works and don’t think I have a “magic money card”. As an accountant, my kids understand taxes and the other fixed costs of living, like insurance and maintenance. My habits are not the best as I am the first of the buy now, pay later generation. Luckily, I am before the payday loan days so never had that problem but the ease of acquiring debt is unbelievable. My parents never had any debt. Good for them, but I never learned about it as a result. The only debt they had was a mortgage and maybe a car loan. So my kids know a lot, more than most kids. I am always surprised that people are so secretive about money. It never made sense to me. My kids know how much we make and what we have to use it for. As a self-employed person, I offer to pay them to help me with tasks. They each get a very generous allowance but for that money they are expected to buy anything they want except for regular meals, regular clothing, and gifts. Eating out (when its their choice), overpriced branded clothing, video games, etc. all get paid by them. And as they get older, they will be responsible for clothing and school supplies as well. One thing I do disagree about that has been said here is the teaching of eating at home, etc. One of the best books I ever read is Your Money or Your Life, which essentially breaks everything down to how many hours of your life you have to trade to achieve something. Different things are important to different people so this allows people to make an educated decision. With my kids, eating out may be important to them or buying a certain brand of shoe, but they will at least know that they have traded something off for that item. And the concept that the same thing can cost different amounts at different stores and at different times is invaluable. recently my mother took the boys to the science centre and they wanted to buy something at the gift shop. My older son recognized that the item he wanted would also be available at Walmart and told my mother that it was most likely cheaper there. Someone overheard him telling her this and commented on how smart he is.
Susan
April 1, 2009 at 12:40 pm
1. Do you think schools should teach children how money works and how to manage it? – ABSOLUTELY! I think schools she teach “practical” or “life” subjects as well as academic subjects. My daughter may never need to know about a frog’s digestive system, but she’ll definitely need to know about personal finance in her life.
2. At what grade do you believe this education should begin? And end? – It’s never too early to start. Elementary/Primary schools she teach the basics in math, and then by the time kids are in High School they should have in-depth knowledge of savings / investing / debt management / mortgages, etc.
3. List six topics you think schools should cover when it comes to teaching money management. – a) Savings vs. Spending, how choices affect our lives. b) Interest, paid and earned, how compounding affects outcomes c) Investing, and the basic principals of stocks / bonds / etc. d) Work and Retirement, making great choices early to have great outcomes later e) Budgeting f) Taxes
4. What role do you think others (parents, bankers, community groups) should play in the education of our kids, specifically about money? – I would like to see parents take a HUGE roll, bankers not as much of a role as they are looking out for the business (e.g. banks pushing credit cards to new college students – NOT in their best interest!) Education should ideally start at home but unfortunately many parents are afraid to discuss $$ with their kids!
5. Do you agree or disagree with the statement: Financial institutions should be held liable for lending irresponsibly when they don’t “educate” before they lend. (Elaborate if you wish.) ABSOLUTELY – My brother has recently been foreclosed upon and claimed bankruptcy, and whomever lent him the money HAD to have known he couldn’t make the payments. Credit card companies give more credit than annual salary – Puh-Lease! Who does this stuff with the benefit of the consumer in mind? Certainly not the lenders.
6. What three things about money do you wish you had learned earlier? – That if I just save (and invested) 10% of everything I earned, I could be completely independently wealthy by the time I retired.
7. What mistakes could you have avoided if you’d known more about how money works? – The only mistake I made was not saving enough, and that was due to a relationship with a “spender” … which I wish someone would teach me how to handle being with a “spender” better!
8. What do you think it will take to change The System and ensure the next generation of adults knows how money works? – We need to teach the adults to teach their children! We need to encourage schools that personal finance is just as important as biology!
9. Do you have resources you would recommend to help schools, teachers, parents, help children learn about money? There are lots of books & blogs, I do my best every day to teach my own child & her friends about money. I encourage my friends to teach their kids, too.
10. What else would you like to say on this topic? – Hopefully this economic crash will be an incentive for folks to open up about what they -and their children – can do better in the future to avoid/prepare for these situations.
April 1, 2009 at 12:47 pm
1. Yes!!
2. Junior high and high school. Up to then I think parents should be teaching them – but 6 years is enough time to understand it thoroughly in case they weren’t ever taught.
3. Taxes, credit, investing, legislation to protect your money such as CDIC, SAVING!!, true costs of living. Currently there is a 1 semester course in the Alberta curriculum called career and life management, that briefly covers costs of living and getting careers. It is NOT ENOUGH. Everything I learned about money, I learned on my own.. and I hardly know anything.
4. I think it takes a village to raise a child, and if we have a whole generation that’s clueless about money, then that’s going to be a pretty scary government in 40 years.
5. YES. Yes, yes, yes. If a pharmacist sold you a drug without educating you about its risks and benefits, you could be seriously harmed because you wouldn’t know what side effects to look for. Money is no different.
6. Taxes and how they work, federal grants and saving programs (RRSP, CPP) and how they work, investing and how that works. All things that I still don’t know and probably should as a productive working citizen.
7. I wouldn’t have gone so crazy with my first student loan. I also would have started my RRSP at least 5 years ago when I had more disposable income.
8. Mandatory money education. We don’t have to raise a generation of financial advisors but EVERYONE should have a working understanding about the money they use, earn, and spend every day.
9. If I had those resources I’d access them. Sadly, I don’t!
10. If we all had common sense, we wouldn’t need two thirds of our emergency rooms. People can’t be left to common sense about their health, much less about their money. I support standardized, formal education.
April 1, 2009 at 12:57 pm
There are a lot of high school courses that offer finance. It just depends on wether a student takes it or not.
example 1. Managing Personal and Family Resources, (HIR3C)
Grade 11, College Preparation
This course explores how to use human, material, and community resources effectively, and
how to make informed choices with respect to clothing purchases, finance, food and nutrition,
housing, and transportation. Students will learn about the dynamics of human interaction; how
to make responsible choices in their transition to postsecondary education and careers; and
strategies to enable them to manage time, talent, and money effectively. This course also
introduces students to skills used in researching and investigating resource management.
Prerequisite: None
and a second one:
Mathematics for Work and
Everyday Life, Grade 11
Workplace Preparation MEL3E
This course enables students to broaden their understanding of mathematics as it is
applied in the workplace and daily life. Students will solve problems associated with
earning money, paying taxes, and making purchases; apply calculations of simple and
compound interest in saving, investing, and borrowing; and calculate the costs of
transportation and travel in a variety of situations. Students will consolidate their
mathematical skills as they solve problems and communicate their thinking.
Prerequisite: Principles of Mathematics, Grade 9, Academic, or Foundations of
Mathematics, Grade 9, Applied, or a ministry-approved locally developed
Grade 10 mathematics course
77
http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/curriculum/secondary/math1112currb.pdf
These are not mandatory classes though. I think parents should have the main responsibility for their kids financial education as a lot of times it is the parents that the kids will mimic.
April 1, 2009 at 1:04 pm
BC has a mandatory class in high schools called Planning 10. In our school district in Northern BC, this class includes a financial unit that teaches students about bank accounts (savings vs. chequing), mortgages (interest rates, terms, amortization, etc.), credit cards, car loans, student loans, simple investments and many other financial products and situations they will encounter in their lifetimes. The final project for this unit involves the student planning to move out of their parents’ home into their own home or apartment, or moving to attend college or university. The student must set a budget for the move, including moving costs, temporary living costs, connecting utilities, etc. The student also creates a monthly budget for living expenses after the move by researching purchase or rental expenses in their new location and education costs related to their area of study. The student must also include income in their budget by estimating their earnings from a summer or part-time job, scholarship or bursary income and gifts from family.
Planning 10 was a wonderful supplement to the financial education that I was giving to my children at home and it was nice to have the knowledge I was trying to impart confirmed by another trusted adult (their teacher!).
I only wish they had had a course like this when I was in high school 25 years ago…it may have saved me from making so many silly mistakes in my financial journey.
April 1, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Interesting post today, Gail. While I have no kids of my own, I certainly see what is happening with the kids in my extended family, and in the families of my friends and neighbours.
1. Should schools teach about money and managing money?
– Absolutely. The basics for the younger students, and more in-depth topics for older students. I do think though that there should be a set curriculum though so that teachers are not passing on personal opinions and ideas.
2. When should the education begin and end?
– Start as early as grade 3 and perhaps until grade 11.
3. Six topics.
– Saving for emergencies, long term, and planned spending.
– Balancing your accounts
– Budgeting, and learning what it truly costs to have a family, have a home, have a car…
– Being accountable
– Defining needs from wants
– Figuring out exactly what you will be earning. There’s a big difference between gross pay and net pay. The government gets paid first, folks.
4. Roles of others.
– Parents should teach specifics… hopefully they are able to manage their own money and don’t pass on bad habits.
– Banks could have a kit explaining basics when a child opens their first account.
5. Should banks be responsible for the actions of the borrowers if they ‘lend irresponsibly’ by not educating them?
– Banks do not lend irresponsibly. They have parameters that you need to be able to meet to borrow money. If you do not live up to your end of the agreement, it is your own fault. Make sure you read the fine print… and ask questions ! Ignorance is no excuse. Making the bank responsible because you don’t make your payments on time is akin to faulting automakers because you have poor driving skills and have an accident.
6. Three things I wish I could’ve learned earlier.
– To start saving earlier to purchase a home.
– To save more for a ‘rainy day’.
– To set more realistic goals when I was younger.
7. Mistakes I could have avoided.
– Buy Now, Pay Later is a bad idea… unless you already have the money set aside.
– Putting money into an RSP when I had debts when younger… would’ve been better to pay debt off first in my case.
8. Changing ‘the System’ to help future generations.
– Get back to teaching the basics. Home Economics needs to find its way back into the schools.
– Teach accountability and responsibility.
– Lose the sense of entitlement !
9. Resources.
– There is lots of information out there, you just have to look for it.
– And of course, Gail !
10. Other comments.
– Pay Day Loan companies should be abolished. They are a no-win alternative for borrowers. I think it is nothing more than legalized loan sharking.
– I think credit should be harder to get, like it was years ago.
– I think retail companies should not have their own credit cards. Their interest rates are too high and they are too easy to get.
– I think co-signing should not be allowed. If you don’t qualify for the credit on your own, then you should not be getting the credit. It’s too easy to default and have someone else responsible for your mistakes.
– I think parents should stop buying their kids everything they ask for. The sense of entitlement needs to stop.
– Parents need to set examples by keeping their own affairs in order.
– Too many people confuse wants with needs. Excessive consumerism is a high price to pay… literally.
Well… there’s my two cents. I’m sure some will disagree with what I have written. But I know others will agree.
April 1, 2009 at 1:52 pm
I absolutely think that money management should be taught in school.
Though I truly believe that education starts at home and parents are ultimately responsible, it is sadly not the reality.
I also think that these past few years of easy credit, a good economy and consumer debt becoming the norm have fostered a sense of total entitlement for an entire generation of parents and kids.
I personally will be teaching my kids about money so they (hopefully) don’t repeat my mistakes but it would be nice if there was some scholastic back up.
April 1, 2009 at 2:06 pm
1. Do you think schools should teach children how money works and how to manage it?
Yes.
2. At what grade do you believe this education should begin? And end?
It should start in junior kindergarten and end when students graduate.
It should be a major topic during the grades 4-8 and again in specific mandatory courses in high school.
3. List six topics you think schools should cover when it comes to teaching money management.
a) Needs versus wants, Goal setting and where to get the best information for your particular goals.
b) Gail’s Four Piles of Money concept to understanding how to look at money and how it can help you to get started in this world.
c) understanding how to put together a budget and recognizing if it is working or how to tweak it to suit your needs.
d) Money 101- accounts, cheques, reconciling account statements, keeping a journal, mortgages, debt, loans, GICs, taxes, interest, RSPs, credit cards, and the role of Financial Institutions in providing credit (with their own qualifiers), bankruptcy and investments.
e) 10% rule- Pay yourself first and then how to save your money (TFSA, other investments)
f) Student Debt and how to avoid pitfalls along the way.
4. What role do you think others (parents, bankers, community groups) should play in the education of our kids, specifically about money?
Everyone has to talk about money in a different way now – back to the basics. Parents should teach, bankers do have responsibilities in teaching their clients to help themselves, community groups cover certain topics for people in financial need. All are involved in some way.
5. Do you agree or disagree with the statement: Financial institutions should be held liable for lending irresponsibly when they don’t “educate” before they lend. (Elaborate if you wish.)
Part of the answer is that all the FIs who got into the sub prime markets are responsible for this gigantic economic mess as well as those politicians who gave into the whims of those FIs who demanded de-regulation of this industry. Are they liable? They should be held liable but it is the taxpayers who are now totally liable for keeping all the nation afloat.
Another part of the question would be that FIs should be better mentors to their clients to show them the problems which they will incur if they borrow irresponsibly. FIs should not be out to make huge profits at the expense of the clients they should be serving better.
Financial institutions should be held responsible for making sure that clients can manage their accounts sufficiently well enough to be able to pay for the credit requested. There seems to be a necessity to sell credit to everyone and this has to stop.
6. What three things about money do you wish you had learned earlier?
a) How to set up a budget which included the four piles of money concept.
b) Percentages to be assigned for each category within a budget.
c) How to live well within your means.
7. What mistakes could you have avoided if you’d known more about how money works?
Not having to deal with debt now.
8. What do you think it will take to change The System and ensure the next generation of adults knows how money works?
Changing the system is coming – G20 in Britain – financial institutions will have world wide regulatory controls imposed upon them in order to get the world economies growing again.
Can you ever ensure that the next generation will know how money works?
Adults hurt in the recession are learning those life lessons which were never taught or were not believed to be important. Personal pain (loss of a job, house, pension plan, etc) teaches very quickly what you may have avoided to learn before.
Will adults have learned sufficiently how money works after this recession is over? I think not. People return to their old ways when everything settles back into place. You would have to have a long term recession in place to affect real change.
What would it take to solve this problem? Education of the masses, using every form of media over a period of a generation. Good luck, Gail!
9. Do you have resources you would recommend to help schools, teachers, parents, help children learn about money?
There are resources available and they should be further developed and directed to specific age groups and needs so that money lessons are truly learned at a young age.
10. What else would you like to say on this topic?
If you want change – you must speak to the right people who have that power and then you have to be able to sway those people in charge with proof that change is necessary. Without proof, there is no reason to put time and resources into change. Education is like that right now. Everything has to be proven necessary. It’s a tall order and this survey could be a stimulus toward change!
April 1, 2009 at 3:01 pm
1. Do you think schools should teach children how money works and how to manage it?
It depends on when they start to teach it. I don’t recall any efforts made in elementary school about money, but in high school we had a class that was all about basic stuff you need to know when you’re out and about living. Credit, bills, how to organize your time. I should have taken it, but it had a strange reputation as being an easy class. Yeah. I really should have taken it.
Scary is the fact that my husband was in collage two years ago (he went back as an older student) and they had a class where the assignment was to handle the fact that you didn’t make enough money to cover expenses. His suggestion of: Find a second job or cut expenses was declared too difficult by the other students. I fear for the future.
2. At what grade do you believe this education should begin? And end?
As soon as math is being taught in a classroom it’s a wonderful time to introduce money. After all, every single kid in the classroom will deal with money when they’re older, so it makes sense. I would say Grade 3 or 4. It should continue until they graduate from high school.
3. List six topics you think schools should cover when it comes to teaching money management.
Budgets, Credit, Interest, Shopping (impulse vs actually researching the product you want to buy)… That’s all I can think of off the top of my head.
4. What role do you think others (parents, bankers, community groups) should play in the education of our kids, specifically about money?
Everyone needs to show how important money is and warn how it can be abused and the result of that abuse.
5. Do you agree or disagree with the statement: Financial institutions should be held liable for lending irresponsibly when they don’t “educate” before they lend. (Elaborate if you wish.)
I agree to a point. Maybe like gun control people should go in for a loan or what-have-you, talk to the lender about their options and then be given a three day cool down period before deciding if they want it.
6. What three things about money do you wish you had learned earlier?
-SAVE. I would have been as cheap as I am now as a teen if I’d realized how much I could have now.
-INVESTMENTS. If I’d saved as a teen I would have invested in some way, even if it was a sure thing with a low interest rate.
-BILLS. I always knew that there were bills — I just didn’t know how fast they added up. A little heads up on that would have been nice.
7. What mistakes could you have avoided if you’d known more about how money works?
I’m lucky, I haven’t made a lot of huge ones, but again, I totally would have saved more.
8. What do you think it will take to change The System and ensure the next generation of adults knows how money works?
The system needs an overhaul. I know we don’t want to burden kids with life when they’re little, but the sooner they learn the more they learn.
9. Do you have resources you would recommend to help schools, teachers, parents, help children learn about money?
No, ‘fraid not.
10. What else would you like to say on this topic?
The way people handle money management scares the CRAP out of me. I understand that you have to live and need to have fun but since when did fun mean bigger and bigger toys? If you can afford it, yay. If you can’t, then you pout and move on! We can tell our kids no (usually) when they want something expensive and THEY get over it, so adults need to do that too.
April 1, 2009 at 3:10 pm
I work for a bankruptcy trustee and I am in the process of getting my trustee’s license. I just came back from giving a talk to my old high school on this exact topic, and I advocate your point on a daily basis in my practise. Gail, I am a regular viewer of your show and would be pleased to discuss my views further.
1.Absolutely! The first exposure I had to “money” in school was in grade 11 econimics and it was a global perspective.
2.It should start in kindergarden when kids play “store” and continue through to the end of highschool. The themes and lessons should be age and curriculum appropriate but there is no reason that it can be taught as part of every grades math and social studies curriculum.
3 a. needs vs wants, b. up to date information regarding the realities of the work place and pay scale (I was taught that going to university = high paying job; might eventually but not in the instant gratification sense it was conveyed to me) c. budgeting, ie if you make $20000 a year your spending can not be a penny more d. responsible use of credit e. the impotance of savings and how the banking and interest rate system works f. financial markets and how to safely and wisely invest in the myriad of investmnet vehicles (RRSPs GICs ets)
4. I think bankers already play a good role but should continue to provide resouces, much of what I learned growing up came from bank literature, theer are already various incentives and programs for starting savings accounts at a yonge age. Parents – deponds on their level os savvy, if they cant set a good example then perhaps others are better qualified, although parents should learn the skills with their childern if they are lacvking teh savvy. Community groups – what ever helps, boy scouts, religious groups etc should involve financila managemnet in their lessons and values as long as it is approporite.
5.In an ideal world yes, but they are a for profit business and really should only be blanmed when they deliberately contrubute to their clients problems. A bank can be to blame that a VISA holder has a gambling addicion or a drug problem. If they misrepresent themselves to a client then they should be held liable.
6.I was fortunate that I was also a son of a Trustee and CA who was able to lead me downa straight path. Most aren’t as fortunate and oly learn from their families habits, if tehir family made poor choices or had limited access to resources, subsequent generations picked up the same habits. I actually have 2nd generation bankrupts as clients.
7. See point six.
8.I actually want to speak with people at my professional association who activly lobby our Federal regulator, Industry Canada’s Office of the Superintendant of Bankruptcy. I have in my office, and I believe available online age specific education materials. Few people know they are available and until it becomes school curriculum, ie teh problem becomes so pandemic that the Minstry of Education and local boards implement change.
9.Yes – see point eight and I beleive that the Canadian Banker’s Association also has resources. Our regulator along with our professional association CAIRP (Canadian Association of Insolvency and Restructuring Professionals) has a prescribed course of study for Trustees Candidates to complete to allow them to educate their clients and prevent recidivism.
10.It has long drawn my ire that students leave highschool without the slightest incling of money managemet and their first encounter at University/College is being hit with a barrage of offers to obtain unsecured cerdit at atime that their are often for the first time having to be self reliant, have little or no income and often great expenses and student loans.
April 1, 2009 at 4:09 pm
and now to answer the survey…
1. Do you think schools should teach children how money works and how to manage it?
Yes absolutely. Though education should begin at home it should most definitely be reinforced scholastically.
2. At what grade do you believe this education should begin? And end?
If children start receiving an allowance at around age 5 I honestly think starting in kindergarten is realistic and end in the last year of high school. Obviously the lessions would change over time progressing from the basics i.e. what money is and how it is used to saving for post secondary education etc.
3. List six topics you think schools should cover when it comes to teaching money management.
How it works i.e. you have to EARN it, household budgeting and planned spending, saving, how credit works, future planning i.e. buying a house, retirement etc.
4. What role do you think others (parents, bankers, community groups) should play in the education of our kids, specifically about money?
Teaching our kids anything should be our responsibilty as parents. However, anything to reinforce that or provide more in depth expertise (such as a banker or other professional could provide) would be welcome.
5. Do you agree or disagree with the statement: Financial institutions should be held liable for lending irresponsibly when they don’t “educate” before they lend. (Elaborate if you wish.)
I’m in the middle on this one. I already feel that “we” are turning into a nation/world that lacks accountability for our actions. Ultimately we must be responsible for ourselves, our actions and our decisions.
However, I also feel that in the interest of making money, financial institutions take liberties by either not explaining the fine print or glossing over certain aspects. I know this from recent experience when a mortgage specialist pre-approved us for a mortgage that we could truly not afford.
6. What three things about money do you wish you had learned earlier?
7. What mistakes could you have avoided if you’d known more about how money works?
That it doesn’t grow on trees! Kidding.
The concept of saving and planned spending. When I was young and had an allowance the first thing I did was head to the general store and spend it. I just treated all my money as disposable income.
Though it is not a money mistake per se my biggest problem has been buying for want (and stuff) and not need. i.e. blowing all of my summer savings on a new back to school wardrobe every year in highschool rather than a college fund etc.
I am getting better now with all three but I would like to think I would have avoided student loans and learned to budget.
However I would like to proudly say that I have never ever missed a bill payment. So my mother did manage to instill some good sense in me!
8. What do you think it will take to change The System and ensure the next generation of adults knows how money works?
I think the problem here is that its not just the “system” as in the financial system. Our whole culture has changed into a culture of excess. We’re celebrity obsessed, gadget obsessed, stuff obsessed. We can’t turn around without being bombarded by something we “need” to buy.
That being said, I think education is the best first step and will at least provide the tools for people to make more concious decisions.
I also think that the current economy has been a wake up call to many. However, I can also see most returning to their free-wheeling spending once it improves.
9. Do you have resources you would recommend to help schools, teachers, parents, help children learn about money?
Can I recommend Gail?
10. What else would you like to say on this topic?
I have a farirly balanced relationship with money. There are areas where I can improve but for the most part I am comfortable. I certainly have regrets regarding foolish spending and had my parents been a stronger influence in that regard (i.e. pushed saving more) it may have changed my attitudes but that being said, it was still my choice.
I plan on teaching my children about money using a lot of Gail’s methods. I’m actually looking forward to it (they’re only 2.5 and 6 months right now) because I think it will also make our family as a whole financially stronger.
April 1, 2009 at 5:25 pm
1. Yes. Money basics and money management should be taught in school as well as being reinforced by parents at home.
2. Money education could begin around Grade 3 and continue until Grade 12 with age appropriate topics. Start with things like counting money and making change, then on to figuring out taxes and interest, and include understanding options on how to have money for post-secondary education.
3. Budgets Aren’t Evil or Difficult
How to Comparison Shop Effectively
How to Spend Money Wisely (includes Needs vs Wants)
How to Save Money
Understanding a Financial Alphabet Soup (eg. OSAP, GICs, TFSAs, RRSPs, etc.)
Money is Not a Taboo Subject to Talk About
4. Parents and schools should play a primary role when it comes to money management education. (Assuming the parents and the school are on the same wavelength when it comes to money management.) I have never known Banks to offer seminars in general money management. But maybe there are some out there that offer this service. My financial planner does offer seminars on different money topics but this would be far above a child’s understanding. I see banks providing information to children and parents opening their first bank account, but not necessarily “education”. But maybe that can change.
5. I agree somewhat with that statement. If the bank is acting irresponsibly by witholding information or making information too difficult to understand or misrepresenting themselves, then they should be held accountable and punished accordingly. But customers should also do their homework and be informed at least on a basic level about the loan they are applying for. Customers should make the effort to understand their options and to ask questions if they need clarification.
6. Money options for post-secondary education.
How to live on the money you make.
How to make your money work for you.
7. I wish my family talked about money management more when I was growing up. For the longest time, personal income taxes were done by the “black box” method. I would give Mom my financial papers (T4, T2202A, T3s, T5s, etc.) and she would give them to her accountant and lo and behold I get a refund! I didn’t know how it worked I just knew that I liked getting money back at the end of the process. Mom didn’t talk about how she saved us money, she just did it. She never talked about what she invested money in, she just did it. Mom apparently hid money from Dad because she was worried he’d send it all back to relatives in the Philippines and there would be nothing left for us. A lot of non-communication when it came to money. I’m surprised I am actually doing well with managing my money despite not ever really talking about it as a child.
I am going to be open and transparent with money and how it works with my husband and my daughter.
8. It will take a major shift in the societal perception of money and acquisition of wealth for things to change for the better. But change happens one person at a time. By providing my daughter with education and positive reinforcement of good money habits, she will be one less person who will need to be on Gail’s show.
9. Til Debt Do Us Part and Gail’s Blog. The Financial Consumer Agency of Canada website http://www.moneytools.ca.
10. Love the show and the blog. Keep up the great work, Gail!
April 1, 2009 at 5:41 pm
1.Do you think schools should teach children how money works and how to manage it?
Yes.
2.At what grade do you believe this education should begin? And end?
Kindergarten- Grade 12
3.List six topics you think schools should cover when it comes to teaching money management.
Budgeting, compound interest, RRSPs, how credit works, mortgages, cost of living
4.What role do you think others (parents, bankers, community groups) should play in the education of our kids, specifically about money?
I think everyone needs to play a role in it. It’s up there with the saying it takes a village to raise a child… In general people need to be open when talking about money. Not embarrassed or consider it “rude”
5.Do you agree or disagree with the statement: Financial institutions should be held liable for lending irresponsibly when they don’t “educate” before they lend. (Elaborate if you wish.)
Disagree. They are selling a product. To me it is no different than someone buying a lawnmower and then sticking there hand it while running because the store did not educate them on it first. As consumers we need to ask questions and always read the fine print.
6.What three things about money do you wish you had learned earlier?
How much interest can hurt you. Read the fine print on contracts.
7.What mistakes could you have avoided if you’d known more about how money works?
Borrowing money for toys (i.e snowmobile) we did not need. Getting stuck with a stupid PVR receiver at 10$ a month from Bell for 2 years because I never bothered to read the contract to find out I couldn’t cancel it if I decided I really did not want it. Stupid on my behalf I know.
8. What do you think it will take to change The System and ensure the next generation of adults knows how money works?
Education and lots of it. People need to lose their feeling of entitlement to everything and the “taboo” around money. Education must start from an early age and it is a never ending thing. People need to change their views on how we perceive/ judge others. It is not about having the most up to date game system, new cars, brand name clothes etc.. I can remember someone in gr. 7 saying I was poor because my parents would not buy me & my brothers a N64 or playstation. We had a Sega lol. Reality was they could afford it but believed we didn’t need another video game system. Same thing when Baby G watches came out… honestly what 12 year old needs a $100 watch? lol But obviously those kid had learned somewhere along the way that not having the newest of everything meant you were poor, probably from their parents…
9.Do you have resources you would recommend to help schools, teachers, parents, help children learn about money?
This website. Other than that I am not sure. Games would help for younger children, i.e playing store. Maybe have guest speakers for high school students? Like a financial advisor or something? The internet is full of resources… Google is my favourite site
10.What else would you like to say on this topic?
I think money management should be built into the math curriculum in all grades. Money is a life long lesson and the earlier you start to learn the better. It cannot be left solely up to the parents since there are many parents who do not know how to manage their own money.
April 1, 2009 at 6:33 pm
1. Do you think schools should teach children how money works and how to manage it?
I know that when I was in school there were some attempts to touch briefly on some financial topics. I did learn how to calculate compound interest in high school. There was some basic introduction to budgeting (but mostly to illustrate that we needed higher incomes to get what we wanted or food budgets for the cooking projects in Home Ec.).
With so many families currently having difficulties with either financial literacy or execution, the school should really prepare students for this aspect of their lives. It is as simple as application of the concepts that you are learning as a part of the curriculum anyway. It may in fact help with the instruction of some of the basic mathematical skills by providing a relevant example of how to apply the theory. The bottom line is that if more members of society were at the very least informed and making informed decisions regarding their finances, then the economy would likely benefit and that alone justifies making it a school issue rather than a family issue.
2. At what grade do you believe this education should begin? And end?
We should start at about grade 4 when kids start to get and manage a bank account and continue to build on these concepts every year until graduation.
3. List six topics you think schools should cover when it comes to teaching money management.
I think that we should start at grades 4 or 6 with some of the basic concepts of how bank accounts and credit cards work, along with the features available. We should also have instruction along the way of detailed budgeting with both case studies and personal scenarios. We should talk in depth about what choices had to be made in order to balance budgets. Everyone should have to learn the basics of saving for retirement and investing.
4. What role do you think others (parents, bankers, community groups) should play in the education of our kids, specifically about money?
Parents are certainly responsible for helping their children understand these concepts to the best of their ability, but sometimes their backgrounds on these topice are not as strong as they could or should be. Bankers only responsibility is to offer accurate education as to how their specific products work. There is limited onus to ensure that the products sold are the best match for the customers needs. That is the responsibility of the customer. And there should always be additional resources to brush up on knowledge, fill in gaps of understanding or otherwise assist those who need help, but community group participation is often voluntary. It is hard to force someone who is broke to seek help if they don’t see that need for themselves.
5. Do you agree or disagree with the statement: Financial institutions should be held liable for lending irresponsibly when they don’t “educate” before they lend. (Elaborate if you wish.)
NO. A financial institution is selling a product. They only need to educate regarding the accurate features, terms and conditions of their products. An entrepreneur may find a second or third mortgage to be their best option in order to survive a difficulty in their business or be willing to accept the risks to get their buisiness started. Someone who hasn’t learned to budget likely is not the best user of a second or third mortgage. If the lender is willing to accept the risk of that loan, then it is not up to the bank to tell people what is best for them. The key there is that the bank has to take responsibility for its lending and suffer the losses if they are earned. Bailouts do not encourage smart lending practices.
6. What three things about money do you wish you had learned earlier?
How to invest for higher returns based on my goals for the principal.
How to plan for the things that I want to achieve on a longer horizon.
How to take calculated risks when warranted and not sit on excess cash.
7. What mistakes could you have avoided if you’d known more about how money works?
I would have planned better for some experiences that I wanted rather than foregoing for financial stability.
8. What do you think it will take to change The System and ensure the next generation of adults knows how money works?
It will take a very large shift in cultural attitudes towards money and consumerism. When people learn that money is just a facilitator of needs and wants and that the focus should always be on what it can provide, then that may go a long way. It is when people realize that if they select the goals they want in life, then find a way to build the financial plan they need to achieve it, that we will be headed in the right direction. I think there is still a disconnect between the value we place on money as a thing versus what it can do for us.
9. Do you have resources you would recommend to help schools, teachers, parents, help children learn about money?
Many of the resources recommended through this site work well. It is very helpful to just break down real products, goals and scenarios and apply them. Take a real month of spending for a person and compare transaction costs on two real bank accounts. Take a real budget and plan for a real degree or house or vacation. Provide real expenses and create a budget using real paychecks. Find out how much is available for that movie or pair of shoes. Those are the examples that you need. Once students can handle that, they can start trying it with the real inputs in their own lives.
10. What else would you like to say on this topic?
April 1, 2009 at 6:54 pm
I am glad that you are bringing this to attention as it is a topic I feel strongly about.
Here are my responses:
1. I absolutely think that money management needs to be taught in schools.
2. I think that it should begin once children begin to learn about sex. If a child is old enough to learn how to put a condom on (Grade 5!!!!!!!) they can for sure learn how to put money into the piggy bank.
3. Saving, how Interest works, RRSPs, Mortgages, Loans, the difference between “Good Debt” and “Bad Debt”
4. Parents should be teaching children about money, children will learn by example. Bankers as well should be coming in and explaining how a bank works and also teaching the kids how much a bank earns off of their money in order to show them that it is best not to rack up the loans. Banks are needed, there is no doubt about that but a child needs to learn how to live within their means before they are in it too deep.
5. Yes, a person needs to know the fine print that is often glossed over but ultimately the decision to borrow irresponsibly lies with the individual who did it! A person has to accept the consequences of their own actions.
6. I wish I had learned how easy it is to save by automatic withdrawl, what exactly a RRSP is, and how to hook up utilities- I did not even know how to get electricity for where I was living! (I don’t know if that is what you want to know but bill payments are important)
7. I would not have squandered so much money. Seriously.
8. I think that people have to work hard to fix their mistakes and then spread the word so the next generation will hopefully not repeat the mistakes. Talking with people is the quickest way to spread ideas even though it is hard sometimes. Also, the biggest thing is teaching the next gen that no one owes them the good life, they have to earn it with hard work and then they will appreciate what they have.
9. Other than the common sense that my father taught me (even though I sometimes ignored it, ha ha!) this website and TDDUP have taught me so much. Also my friends showed me through they mistakes and bankruptcies what not to do for sure. I know that my friends are not concrete resources but the discussion of money is very important.
10. I left high school and knew nothing about money. The topic was not really discussed at home and when I began to earn it I did not handle it responsibly. I always remembered my father telling me to not buy things on credit except a house or car and then to be careful and not go above my means (don’t buy a ferrari if I can’t afford it). And I am so glad I learned that. I eventually learned how to save and how awesome it feels to pay off a car or buy one in cash and I will be definitely educating my daughter to be wise. I wish I knew these lessons when I was 18. Good luck and I hope that we can teach our children to be thankful for what we have. I think that is the biggest lesson they need to learn.
April 1, 2009 at 7:10 pm
1. YES!
2. counting money and giving change as early as grade 2; figuring out discount percentages, savings percentages and calculating tax percentages as early as grade 5; Paying bills and balancing checkbooks as early as grade 7; rudementary income tax calculations and how to read interest rate charts as early as grade 10. Finding out the real cost of credit, developing a budget at the LATEST by grade 11.
3. 1-giving change, 2-reconciling bank accounts, 3-budgetting, 4-calculating interest, 5-calculating percentages for everything, 6- figuring taxes owing.
4. it should be there to give basic knowledge, family experiences, professional advice and to fill in the gaps…. no different from the role they play now!
5. I disagree…. I think anyone who signs on the dotted line should ask questions and read the fine print before they agree to anything. If something is not clear, ask for clarification, if the explaination doesn’t match what they want you to sign, get it in writing. in short BUYER BEWARE.
6. budgetting / the magic of compound interest / pay myself first
7. not applicable.
8. more practical math at an early age, less thoretical stuff.
9. Wealthy Barber, Rich Dad Poor Dad, Your Money or Your Life should be read at the same time as Shakespeare and Mowat in schools.
10. Money is reality, for better or worse. They teach sex-ed at such and early age, why not money management too? It seems a no-brainer to me, and would probably engage more young people to really get what math is good for — figuring out what “30% off” really means, and what “buy now pay later” really costs!
April 1, 2009 at 8:13 pm
1.Absolutely. It should be a mandatory lesson just as sex education is.
2. It should start in grade 9. At this age, children are past the primary years, and starting their high school years. This is also the time when many kids will start having a part time jobs, thus requiring guidance on how to manage their new paycheques. I think it should continue until grade 12 as part of the regular school curriculum.
3.
1. Budget
2. Cost of Living (approx cost for rent, food, utilities, etc.)
3. Credit Cards/Short term loans (how it functions)
4. Good and bad credit
5. Long term loans (Mortgage/Student Loan)
6. Credit rating
4. Parents should play a major role in educating our kids. I believe it is one of our primary responsibility. It is a part of raising our kids to be responsible citizens.
5. No, I do not think that financial institution should be held liable for lending irresponsibly when they don’t “educate” before they lend. It is the consumers responsibility to learn about the program they are signing up to prior to agreeing to the conditions.
However, I do think that the financial institution should be held liable for approving exorbitant loans based on little or no assets. For example financial institution should have to prove that the borrower has assets/means to pay back the loan prior to lending. (ie. credit limit based on income/assets). This limit should also be set to a reasonable amount. I think it is ridiculous that the mortgage approval limit can be up to 40% of your income. This limit should be tightened to a manageable level.
6.
1.Saving money earlier, prior to having additional obligations(mortgage, kids, etc).
2. Setting a manageable standard of living earlier on and not increasing the standard of living with each pay raise. (Eventhough we have more than doubled our income, we have actually gone back to our standard of living before the raises. This allows us to pay off our mortgage in less than 10 years. No other debt).
3. An increase of standard of living is shortly lived, as you adjust quickly to the new bigger budget. Then you always want more. It is easier to stay with the old budget and put the money aside for future needs.
7. N/A
8. We need to educate kids more. I grew up in another country where credit card and mortgages were extremely rare and cash was king. We are trying to go back to that, and only using our credit cards for points. (We never have had any other debt except for mortgage, because I don’t believe in debt). Maybe we need to go back to that.
9. Read everything you can about finances
10. N/A
April 1, 2009 at 8:21 pm
Great thought!
Do you think schools should teach children how money works and how to manage it? –
Yes. Some people will say that school is not appropriate. But if we worry about “perfect” it will never get done. They are a good place and that is good enough.
At what grade do you believe this education should begin? And end?
K-12. At the post secondary students can take their own initiative.
List six topics you think schools should cover when it comes to teaching money management.
Yikes! I can’t take the time to make this coherent so I’ll throw out a jumble:
-power of compound interest
-credit cards
-How banks make their money (ie most people should not pay fees)
-Taxes taxes taxes. I STILL don’t fully understand them.
-Budgeting and saving.
-General education about over-consumption
Some of those are pretty micro topics. This isn’t exactly a circ list!
What role do you think others (parents, bankers, community groups) should play in the education of our kids, specifically about money?
I think parents are the key. I was lucky to grow up watching the positive example of my parents. I have avoided a lot of money mistakes because I’ve only been exposed to the “right” way.
Do you agree or disagree with the statement: Financial institutions should be held liable for lending irresponsibly when they don’t “educate” before they lend. (Elaborate if you wish.)
Disagree. I know it’s dirty pool that companies exists solely to take advantage of people…but I believe that the consumer should take responsibility for his/her actions. As long as it’s not collusion (like Canadian cell phone companies, until recently IMO). The institutions are only a symptom of the projblem – ignorant consumers.
What three things about money do you wish you had learned earlier?
I’ve had the basics down since forever because of my upbrining. I just wish I understood more about investing and taxes and all that jazz. I’m actively learning now, but it’s painful! I’m not inherently interested.
What mistakes could you have avoided if you’d known more about how money works?
Have been lucky enough to have not made any big mistakes – so far! I’ve been very fortunate.
What do you think it will take to change The System and ensure the next generation of adults knows how money works?
Legislation. And infrastructure. I doubt that most teachers are equipt to teach children much of anything about money. So they will need to be properly eductaed first.
Do you have resources you would recommend to help schools, teachers, parents, help children learn about money?
I was given a great book as a kid – I wish I knew what it was called! So I’ll just say that there are some narative style books that are geared directly to kids that make the topic interesting and easy to understand. Many adults could certainly learn a thing or two from them.
What else would you like to say on this topic?
I think that teaching financial skills in schools is a great idea as long as the teachers can be well educated first. I can see it being a bit of a disaster if the teachers are knowledgable enough.
I also think that this needs to be instituted from a young age. I had a small unit in personal finance (maybe a few classes worth of it) in grade 12 but no one took it seriously. You can’t throw that stuff in there at the end.
If I were designing the program I would think of it very much like sex-ed. Create specific lession plans and guides for teachers to use. It may be controversial, but for many puttiing a controversial topic in a more objective enviroment like a school makes it more useful.
April 1, 2009 at 10:20 pm
1. Do you think schools should teach children how money works and how to manage it?
Absolutely. Money and money management are critical skills for being successful adults. I also think basic tax courses should also be taught so people are armed with information rather than treating all our money and taxes as a huge black hole.
2. At what grade do you believe this education should begin? And end?
So many of our math problems in school have to do with money already, if we can introduce money into math, why cant we also introduce money as money at the same age.
3. List six topics you think schools should cover when it comes to teaching money management.
1) Budgeting
2) Prioritizing between needs and wants
3) Savings strategies
4. What role do you think others (parents, bankers, community groups) should play in the education of our kids, specifically about money?
Parents have the responsibility of being role models to children, and to talk to them and show them how to properly manage money. They also should keep as open a dialogue about money with children as anything else.
I dont think bankers necessarily should have a role in the education of children, as we have seen in the recent financial situation, bankers have enough problems in their own education.
Community groups, especially areas such as not for profit debt counselling, and groups like that I think should also have classes not only for adults, but for teenagers and children alike focusing on how debt can be a real burden and why you dont want to be there. In a world where teenagers are armed with credit cards, we also need to have teenagers armed with information.
5. Do you agree or disagree with the statement: Financial institutions should be held liable for lending irresponsibly when they don’t “educate” before they lend. (Elaborate if you wish.)
Financial institutions are broken in our economy and country (and other countries around the world). We have banks who make money lending to citizens, by taking the money they lend from the government. The government in turn takes the money in the form of taxes fom the citizens who get screwed doubly. Its absolutely crazy. Its all just a systematic problem of irresponsibility to people/citizens in the financial sector.
6. What three things about money do you wish you had learned earlier?
Don’t have a credit card if you dont have an income (when you’re at school)
How painful it is to save vs how easy it is to spend money thoughtlessly.
Talking to people who want money from you before there is a problem always works out better for you than waiting till it’s too late (collection agency or the like) as you can almost always work something out in advance.
7. What mistakes could you have avoided if you’d known more about how money works?
Excess debt while attending school would have been avoided for sure.
I would have conserved money to spend it well on things that really mattered rather than on silly things with nothing really to show.
8. What do you think it will take to change The System and ensure the next generation of adults knows how money works?
I think that because of our current economic problems, money and the way money works, and how the whole system as a whole works is being brought to light. We are entering a time where we can revamp cornerstones of the economy, and I think that’s what really is necessary in order to address the System, because it really is a systemic problem. When companies across the board are focused on gains by quarters instead of a longer picture, is it really any surprise that people in their daily life are more concerned about today and short gains than the long picture? It’s like a quote my friend posted lately. In order to be successful as humans and parents, you have to go against a lot of what the societal norms are.
“Parents need to do something they’ve never been required to to before perhaps at anytime in history: deliberately and consciously counter many of the dominant messages of our own culture.”
- Kay Hymowitz in “Parenting well in a media age”
9. Do you have resources you would recommend to help schools, teachers, parents, help children learn about money?
I really enjoy the following sites:
http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/
http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/
http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse
http://www.moneyasdebt.net/
10. What else would you like to say on this topic?
Nothing
April 2, 2009 at 1:21 am
1) As a teacher, I believe it is absolutly necessary for schools to teach children how money works and how to manage it.
2) Money and money management should be incorporated in the curriculum starting in kindergarten to grade 12. It is a very important concept and can be adjusted for every grade level. Start with simple math, as they do by teaching what each coin represents and continue on to the very complex idea of credit.
3) Savings, interest (especially compounding), credit scores, budgeting, budgeting, budgeting!
4) The responsibility of teaching about money management should not be the schools alone. Parents need to set a good example and talk to children about money. Bankers and other community groups should offer help to the school system by offering to visit classes for presentations, Q&A sessions and other educational programs.
I remember a young woman coming to speak with us about being a young single mom, another person spoke about life with AIDS, why not someone who has claimed bankrupty or has bad credit.
5) This is a hard one, but we should educate ourselves.
6) – how quickly a credit card can become a problem card.
- the importance of making payments monthly.
- how credit actually works.
What mistakes could you have avoided if you’d known more about how money works? – debt, debt, debt
7) Since the education system is not a federal program, but is dealt with provincially, each province would have to be lobbied. Perhaps if there was a why to show government what they would save if they invested there would be a better chance. Of course, this works for many issues, like teaching children to be healthy and spend more time exercising…savings in health care in the long run. Would money management save people from ending up on socail services or defaulting on money owed to the government? I think yes.
I messed up the numbers, but I agree that this is important. I have been saying for years that this should be a part of the math curriculum, or it should be a mandatory course taught in high school.
April 2, 2009 at 1:24 am
Just a note, some of this is already taught in school. I noticed someone mentioned percentages (I just taught this in grade 6), counting change…
I remember learning about interest.
School is the perfect place for this because the fundamentals are already there, they just need to be built upon.
April 2, 2009 at 9:53 am
1. Only if the material is developed by someone who is already wealthy. Most of what is taught to children and young adults about earning and managing money ends up trapping them in the rat race for life, always struggling to get by. The old adage of “go to school, get good grades, so you can get a good job” doesn’t work anymore. Unfortunately, most A students end up working for the C students that start their own businesses.
2. Grade 1, and should not end until completion of post secondary. There is always more and more complex things to learn about earning and managing money. Even in post secondary, I think all programs should include at least a couple of mandatory courses in business and investment. Earning money is one of the most critical skills you need in life.
3. Different ways to earn money (hourly, passive, residual, overrides, brokering deals with percentage cuts, self employed, business owner…), how the different ways of earning money are taxed (ie – income, dividends, capital gains), budgeting, investing and compound interest, understanding financial statements, calculating basic financial ratios, leveraging.
4. I think financial education should be left to family first, then school. If parents are not financially savvy, they can still read books and financial websites and share the information with their children. It can be a learning experience for parents and children.
5. Disagree: Before a consumer buys any product, you should educate yourself on what it does, how it works, how you can use it, and how it can positively and negatively affect you. Banks are for profit centers, they’re only going to do what’s best for them. Forcing them to educate by legislation will only get mediocre results at best because the education will simply get glanced over quickly and consumers won’t pay much attention to it. It’ll just be another document in the pile that gets signed saying that “yes, I the consumer was educated about this…”.
6. That working for an hourly wage is the worst way to earn money, the power of compound interest, using leverage to maximize gains (this can be done safely if you do your research before using leverage)
7. I could have started investing earlier and maximized the effects of compound interest, I could have started my own business fresh out of school instead of working many hours and many years to make my previous employer rich, I could have a much larger asset base of income earning investments by starting to use leverage at a much earlier age (debt is not a bad thing if it’s used to purchase income generating assets instead of ’stuff’ that depreciates in value and doesn’t earn you any income).
8. Ultimately, I don’t think changing the system is the final answer. We need to educate our own children that there are better ways of doing things financially. We need to change and educate ourselves first and become an example to our children, and as we do, we need to be open and communicate with them about money. Most people don’t tend to share their incomes and financial situations with their children. Open up and share everything including the challenges and show them what you’re doing to overcome them. Teach by example.
9. The concepts taught in the “Rich Dad, Poor Dad”, Suze Orman, and Dave Ramsey series of books are an excellent starting point.
10. The topic of educating our children about money is something that should actually extend further to include educating everyone about money. Unfortunately, most adults were also not taught, or were taught bad information about making and managing money. I’m often in the business and finance section of our local bookstore and I never see anyone else in that section. And unfortunately, I also see so many people out there struggling to get by. We need to educate ourselves as well as our children.
April 2, 2009 at 9:57 am
(from an North American neighbor to the south. Hope it’s ok for US folks to fill this out too)
1. Do you think schools should teach children how money works and how to manage it?
Yes, it seems quite foolish not to. Even if one believes that personal finance should be taught exclusively by the parents (I don’t, but I’m sure the sentiment is out there), there is still the future employability of the student to consider. At the very least schools should teach students the skills they need to know to work in fields where handling money is required (making change, making sure accounts balance, basic double entry bookkeeping).
2. At what grade do you believe this education should begin? And end?
I got my first lesson in third grade and I think that’s a fine place to start. I’m guessing that I had some basic math lessons using money before that and I just don’t remember them. It was part of us learning cursive. We learned how to write checks, visited a bank, and, I think, got the basics of “don’t spend more money than you have.”
I think it should continue through university.
3. List six topics you think schools should cover when it comes to teaching money management.
1. Basic money “facts”. What it is. How you use it. What money used to look like, etc.
2. How banking works.
3. Budgeting / bookkeeping
4. How math being taught in classes applies to finances. Compounding interest, percentages, etc. Would be able to follow the existing math curriculum.
5. How to use and understand financial tools available to consumers: loans, credit, taxes, etc. This could easily be done senior year of high school. Lots of kids don’t go to college but will still be taking out auto loans and getting mortgages.
6. Investing, especially demystifying it. More detailed discussion of the tax code.
4. What role do you think others (parents, bankers, community groups) should play in the education of our kids, specifically about money?
I think parents and/or church leaders should tackle the issue of how the family’s religion interacts with finances. If tithing is important to a family and a church then it should be taught by the parents and religious educators. As an atheist, I’d rather this not be in schools as a big part of the curriculum.
I think that parents should play a big role but I don’t think that kids should be left to the mercy of their parents for all of their financial education. Parents may have it wrong. Parents may not have time. Heck, they might just be really bad at money themselves. But, of course, parents should continue the message of the importance of money.
Others, I guess, would have whatever role parents would like to delegate to them. I think it’s great that banks have savings programs for kids and programs to help kids learn about money.
5. Do you agree or disagree with the statement: Financial institutions should be held liable for lending irresponsibly when they don’t “educate” before they lend. (Elaborate if you wish.)
On a personal level, as a well educated consumer and a staunch capitalist, I disagree. But then I smack myself upside the head and suggest to myself that I have a little understanding. The fact is we don’t teach financial literacy to anyone and our schools fail a lot of people. It’s possible that someone doesn’t know how to go out and do the research to figure out the best mortgage; it’s a skill that I take for granted. So, I’d like to see a little more burden on the lenders, “fiduciary duty”, if you will.
I just signed up for the investment plan at work and there was a line on the form indicating that the broker and I both understood my financial decision would only make decisions that fit my situation. (As a side note, I do understand that the broker doesn’t actually have any fiduciary duty, I’m just using the form as an example). I don’t see why it would be a problem to hold the bank liable if such a form was used and it was later found that the loan was completely wrong for a customer.
6. What three things about money do you wish you had learned earlier?
Just how slippery the credit card slope is. I pulled myself out of it quickly but it was getting bad quickly.
The impact of interest on loans. I knew it in theory but I would have liked to be beaten about the head and shoulders with hard numbers a lot more before I got into the real world and got student loans.
Household budgeting. Oh I got all educated in econ classes about the budgets of countries but my knowledge of running a household was zilch.
7. What mistakes could you have avoided if you’d known more about how money works?
I don’t know that I would have avoided any mistakes as they were more emotional then financial decisions. I would have just been a much more educated consumer. I would have charged less and used cash more. I would never have even considered buying a house (thankfully, I didn’t).
8. What do you think it will take to change The System and ensure the next generation of adults knows how money works?
A bigger push in schools. I’m sure a lot of parents are doing a good job but it’s clear from this over-levered past decade that a lot of parents did a really bad job. And kids learn from observing their parents.
9. Do you have resources you would recommend to help schools, teachers, parents, help children learn about money?
Nope. I’ve learned everything I know now from dribs and drabs on the internet and from books I’ve picked up. I’d recommend the books but they’re all very focused on a single agenda and that doesn’t make for a good textbook.
April 2, 2009 at 11:55 am
1) Schools should incorporate real-life money management situations when teaching kids about currency, economy, math, etc
Giving kids real-life education and experience in money management at a younger age than high school/university
2) Grade 2-
3) Compound interest rates, spending only what you have, how spending and saving impact the economy, tracking spending/balancing accounts, wise borrowing, value of money
4) Parents are the primary teachers but there should be community resources to support this as many parents are not the best teachers due to their own issues with money management. Bankers should support financial management programs in high school and universities.
5) Agree
6) Saving even while paying off debt, avoiding use of credit cards, living within my means
7) Would not have had to move back to my parents to pay off debt, would not have relied on loans and credit to cover shortfalls in my monthly budget, would have been more assertive with banks
9) Your website is extremely good, I would also suggest banks have a role in sharing their knowledge but what is needed is an easy to read compilation of the best tools and strategies
10) our culture of needing everything NOW has to change before we’ll see any significant improvements, this will take 1-2 generations but I believe it’s possible
April 2, 2009 at 12:50 pm
Just a note – a lot of people mention that money should be a part of the math program. I totally agree, the math partof money is important. I remember learning how to calculate compound intereste etc when in high school.
BUT, money is a lot more than math. Most adults know that you have to spend less than you make and that using credit costs money. It’s about attitudes (towards consumption mostly), accountability, and skills like reading and negotiating and budgeting as well.
If money was just math we’d have a lot less debt in this world.
April 2, 2009 at 1:29 pm
Re: Colin’s comments
Since when did money management and wealth become synonymous? Some of the wealthiest people in the world have been and/or are currently in major financial trouble (Donald Trump in particular comes to mind).
The other thing is that not everyone wants to be rich. Some people don’t want the responsibility of owning their own business. Some people like myself are perfectly happy being in the “rat race” driving a North American made car and living in a typical 3 bed 2.5 bath suburban home.
To suggest that there is something wrong with working for an hourly wage or salary is beyond egotistical.
To each their own.
April 2, 2009 at 2:04 pm
Have been giving this a lot of thought. And, I could quote verbatim what is in the curriculum passed down from the Minister of Education for what is to be taught about money – grade 3, 4 and 5 ( I have a copy right here). If there were to be any changes in the curriculum you would have to approach and deal with the top first.
Nowhere does it state the teacher should teach about saving, debt, expenses etc. It is all math calculations (i.e. making change etc)
My own personal opinion is that handling money (earning an allowance, putting some aside for savings, allowing some for spending, giving to charity etc.) is better taught by the parent(s). The actual act of doing the work, receiving the allowance, discussing it, and dividing it up would teach the child more than figuring out examples in a workbook. How many of us have learned that children mimic their environment? I’m thinking that Gail did an upstanding job with Alex and Malcolm in this area from the get-go. They are no doubt very savvy in the subject. I think children learn by example in many things and am saying I think this is better learned at home. This is just my humble opinion…..
April 2, 2009 at 4:14 pm
I already commented above, but I just read an interesting post that might be relevant to this discussion. This blogger also cited this survey and directed readers here, so you may already be aware of it, but if you’re not, check it out.
http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2009/04/01/what-fourth-graders-know-about-money/
April 2, 2009 at 4:16 pm
@ danadk
I apologize if my point came across that way. There is nothing wrong with working for an hourly wage, especially if you enjoy what you do. What I was trying to say was that compared to other ways of making money, exchanging your time for money is the least efficient way of doing it.
Re: money management = wealth – Wealth and money management tie together quite intricately. If you can’t earn enough money, money management won’t be able to help you. With so many people earning below the poverty levels of income, I believe that education on building wealth would be very beneficial. That’s not to say that everyone needs to be or should be millionaires, but it could help avoid a lot of the poverty that many people struggle with.
Re: responsibility of running a business – businesses don’t necessarily require a lot responsibility. Look at any fast food chain. Most of the owners of those businesses don’t have to spend much time at all running their business. They hire other people to manage it for them. Your level or responsibility will vary depending on how you set it up.
April 2, 2009 at 5:29 pm
Re: Colin
I disagree that owning a fast food chain has low responsibility. Low TIME requirements maybe, but high responsibility. Ultimately all the responsiblity comes down to you (if the company gets sued, goes out of business, can’t pay it’s bills, etc). Not to mention your huge initial investment.
Not that I disagree that it could be a great way for the right person to make money without spending a ton of their time.
April 3, 2009 at 7:55 am
[...] Gail, the host of Til Debt Do Us Part, is conducting a short survey on kids and money. [...]
April 3, 2009 at 8:51 am
[...] Gail, the host of Til Debt Do Us Part, is conducting a short survey on kids and money. [...]
April 3, 2009 at 8:52 am
1. Do you think schools should teach children how money works and how to manage it?
Definitely! I remember (back in 1976), in Grade 5 in a small town (Ontario), doing a section on being in a family. You had to keep a baby (a doll) with a partner, go through the grocery fliers and plan a week’s groceries, and keep a budget for your household. In that same class, we went on a field trip to the only bank in town (Royal), and each of us took some money and opened up our own bank accounts. They gave us a tour of the bank, told us how to fill in the deposit/withdrawal forms, and we came back to school with our bankbooks. We also learned how to write cheques properly. That class still sticks with me today, and I wish the schools of today would do the same thing.
2. At what grade do you believe this education should begin? And end?
As I said above, this was in Grade 5, so there should be some basics before this, but it should continue right through high school, in various forms, obviously getting more detailed as they went on. My two daughters are in Grade 2 and Junior Kindergarten. In JK, they have a cash drawer with play Canadian money in it, and they play store. In Gr. 2, they have learned basic money denominations, and adding, etc.
3. List six topics you think schools should cover when it comes to teaching money management.
What money can do (both positive and negative), Budgets, How to write cheques (even though they aren’t used much anymore) and keep track of your money (spreadsheets), Credit Systems and Cards, Interest and how to calculate, and basic living skills (as I did in Grade 5). Also, maybe a class on how to do your own income tax. I do ours, and it’s not rocket science.
4. What role do you think others (parents, bankers, community groups) should play in the education of our kids, specifically about money?
Parents should be the lead in teaching kids about money, however, as a member of our school’s School Advisory Council and volunteering in my daughters’ classes, I know that parents don’t do as much for their children’s education as we would like. Most parents who have problems financially are not good role models for their children, as they aren’t teaching the proper lessons. Banks should have a field trip component, which allows schools to come in and tour, and learn about the bank. There should be an educational package to go with it, to show how the banks work, from the top, right on down.
5. Do you agree or disagree with the statement: Financial institutions should be held liable for lending irresponsibly when they don’t “educate” before they lend. (Elaborate if you wish.)
Disagree. Banks are in business to do what they do, but if you are signing on that dotted line, you should be reading ALL the print, and understanding it. If you don’t the onus is on you to figure it out. That’s a big problem we have now – people don’t read their contracts. It must be free money! If it seems to good to be true, it is.
6. What three things about money do you wish you had learned earlier?
My parents never had credit cards – my father kept a roll of money in a can in the closet and never kept ALL his money in the bank. He paid for everything with cash or a cheque – and he kept a very close eye on where it was going (bankbook updates and a cheque register). So, when I went to college, and saw all those credit cards, I didn’t know about how they worked, but got one. I wish my parents had had a credit card to show me how they worked, instead of having to find out myself. I also wish I had known more about stocks and investing earlier – it seemed like something that only stockbrokers dealt with. Would have like to learn how to invest in stocks wisely.
7. What mistakes could you have avoided if you’d known more about how money works?
My husband found out that having store credit cards can be dangerous – and he racked up a lot of debt on those, and paid WAY more for items that he should have. So basic credit advice for him would have been great.
8. What do you think it will take to change The System and ensure the next generation of adults knows how money works?
It has to start with the kids of today, so if there was a change in the curriculum, that would be a start. Kids need to understand the ramifications of credit, and what can happen before they get into trouble. We also need to get away from “have now” thinking. My parents were older, and they never used credit because they saved up for items before getting them – and I saw that too. There is too much advertising for “buy it now – pay later”. People have to slow down and save for items. In this day and age though, that is very difficult, so it will require a full system overhaul.
9. Do you have resources you would recommend to help schools, teachers, parents, help children learn about money?
I think your website, Gail, is a great way for people to begin. It is all here! I read the Wealthy Barber, but I find that there aren’t any good books for kids (especially Canadian) to learn about money. Again, I think you have the best resources, and you should help the Ontario Ministry of Education introduce a money section in the curriculum.
10. What else would you like to say on this topic?
People need to learn the basics of money, no matter what their age. However, keeping up with the Jones is getting worse, because the toys are getting easier to get (with credit). We have to get back to enjoying life simply – spending time with each other doing things that don’t require all the toys. Thank you Gail, for helping all of us that read your Blog understand the basics better. I hope the next generation “gets it” better than the past one. Then maybe we won’t get into another worldwide financial disaster that we are currently seeing.
April 3, 2009 at 9:00 am
1. Yes I do believe money should be part of the regular school program.
2. Basic math during middle school, real concepts in high school.
3. A, Net Worth and how to calculate it. B, How to calculate your return on your investments. C, How to calculate loan interest, payments, and cost. D, Budgeting and Saving techniques. E, How to read income statements and balance sheets. F, How taxes work, why we pay them, how to find where your tax follars are going, and where to find the new rules each year.
4. Parents play a great part and should be teaching by example. Banks should simply offer products that make sense and are affordable. Community groups should concentrate on things like city beatification, assisting people who genuinely need help (IE, starving, emergency help for homes in distress, those kind of things).
5. I do disagree. Who’s responsible when someone buys Z rated tires and wraps their car around a tree trying to corner at 200KM/h? Are bag manufactures responsible when someone uses one of their bags to carry the loot out of the bank they just robbed? The institution is offering a product, once you buy it it’s your responsibility to use it properly.
6. A, Work for 2 years before paying to go to school . . . save and pay yourself . . . loans are terrible. B, Don’t buy things you can’t afford . . . Just because the money in your account is larger than the purchase price doesn’t mean you can afford it. C, Cars suck money like a hoover
7. Buying a house should be a personal choice, not financial. Learn about how money works earlier because 10 years in to my working career I should be in much better financial shape than I am today.
8. For people to stop whining to the government to solve all of their self inflicted problems and accept personal responsibilities . . . Like that would ever happen.
9. Millionaire Next Door, Your Money or Your Life, Wealthy Barber.
10. A little sarcastic, but if everyone knew how to manage their money, who would the lefties need to ’save’?
April 3, 2009 at 9:16 am
@WilderMiss
You can protect yourself from all those things by setting up your business as a corporation instead of a sole proprietership.
Insurance will protect you from being sued, and if the business runs into financial problems, creditors can only go after the corporation’s assets, and not after you or any of your own personal money or assets.
April 3, 2009 at 9:48 am
1. I don’t know if I trust this to the school system. But there should be the basics for the kids who don’t get it at home (or get wrong information). I think this is more controversial than sex education.
2. I think there should be a topic on it in Social Science in Grade school. Maybe grade 6-7 and then a full course in Grade 10 (before those who might drop out drop out)
3. Credit Cards, loans, budgeting, investing, which jobs pay which jobs keep you at the poverty level, mortgages
4. I think the course should be the type where a member of the community can come in and do specific segments.
5. Unfortunately you cannot legislate this one. It is and has always been the consumers responsibility to know what they are signing. All the lenders would do is create another of those shiny brochures that no one reads.
6. I don’t deserve a cushie life, even if I am a highly skilled engineer and don’t trust people with your money.
7. It was more of an attitude problem. I knew the mechanics of how money worked but I didn’t understand that someone could steal 250K from me because I trusted everyone.
8. A depression
9. Cashflow for kids
10. Thanks, love your show.
April 3, 2009 at 5:13 pm
1. Yes. It’s an important part of life an it should be covered in the school system. But, like sex-ed, parents shouldn’t rely only on the school for this education.
2. As early as possible. Simple things like monetary denominations and how to make change could be taught in primary school, working up to budgeting, saving, and compound interest in middle school, how credit works in junior high, with the stock market in high school.
3. Budgeting, Balancing a Chequebook, Supply and Demand, Credit (including cards, student loans and mortgages), the Stock Market (including history of bubbles and crashes), Taxes. There are many more.
4. Parents need to be the main participants in educating their child about money. It would be wonderful if more financial information geared towards children was available from the government, independant groups, and financial institutions. Perhaps handouts or small colouring books starring some mascot from a major bank telling kids how their savings can grow in a bank account or how credit cards actually work?
5. Disagree. I think people already displace too much blame. Be accountable for your own decisions. However, legislation requiring financial contracts to be translated in plain language and readable font should be encouraged.
6. How a lack of using credit would leave me with no credit history. To open an RRSP in my teens. The actual value of a dollar.
7. I could have avoided the embarrassing situation of my husband having to co-sign a credit card I wanted (despite my being the sole breadwinner in the family at the time), because I had never been the primary cardholder on one and therefore had no credit history. Apparently having a good utility billing history and a student loan wasn’t enough. Infuriating.
8. More focus on financial education, particularly in schools.
9. Sadly, not yet. Though I will be trolling the internet to discover son before my son is old enough to learn about it.
April 6, 2009 at 1:22 am
[...] Kids & Money Survey « gailvazoxlade.com [...]
April 8, 2009 at 11:07 am
I am an award winning Canadian author of a book teaching children about money and financial values. The book is called “The 4 Little Pigs” and is the story of what my son Caleb did with a weekly allowance that we divided between four piggy banks named Saving, Spending, Sharing and Schooling. Our local school board purchased the book for all elementary schools in our area. I give presentations of the book in its digital format in schools and libraries speaking to children about financial values through money management. Being financially responsible is a skill set that we all need as adults I think there is great value in having them learn money management as part of the school curriculum.
April 11, 2009 at 10:27 am
1.Do you think schools should teach children how money works and how to manage it? Yes, I took a class in high school that included some financial responsibility lessons needs v wants, etc. Was very valuable to me.
2.At what grade do you believe this education should begin? And end?
List six topics you think schools should cover when it comes to teaching money management.
Grade 8/9, when teens are beginning to earn their own money. Topics covered should be need vs wants, living within your means, credit cards are not ‘free money’. How to calculate interest, how to budget, and keep track.
3.What role do you think others (parents, bankers, community groups) should play in the education of our kids, specifically about money?
Parents should begin teaching fin. resp. at an early age, by example, and using allowances as a way to teach kids to save for what they want.
4..Do you agree or disagree with the statement: Financial institutions should be held liable for lending irresponsibly when they don’t “educate” before they lend. (Elaborate if you wish.)
I disagree, it is up to the individual applying for a loan to educate themselves, be responsible for their own choices.
5.What three things about money do you wish you had learned earlier?
What mistakes could you have avoided if you’d known more about how money works?
I guess I’m a rarity, the only thing I wish I’d done earlier is to start RRSP contributions at a younger age. Otherwise, I think I’ve made wise financial decisions. We pd our mort off in 6 1/2 yrs, I think due to the fact that my parents taught me fin. resp. from an early age. IE:began paying them rent after my first job.
6.What do you think it will take to change The System and ensure the next generation of adults knows how money works?
Parents need to take a bigger role in preparing their children for the real world, financially.
7.Do you have resources you would recommend to help schools, teachers, parents, help children learn about money?
No
What else would you like to say on this topic?
My philosophy is to always budget for worse case scenario [lay off], any thing above that is a bonus.
April 11, 2009 at 12:36 pm
[...] for a greater inclusion of personal finances in the public school curriculum. He also links to an informal survey from financial blogger Gail Vazoxlade, asking Canadian parents what they think is appropriate in [...]
April 14, 2009 at 3:31 am
- Shools should most definitely teach this, as soon as they start teaching simple math problems. Starting in elementry school, and continuing till graduation, finance problems should be worded to reflect real life problems. The examples I got in math class were “Mary wants to buy ___ bushels of…” and we were like, “eh? What’s a bushel?”
And so starting simple, continue on through all the grades, up to last year, and by graduation kids should understand;
- compound interest, effective annual rates, how to compare terms, declining balance.
- basic credit card stuff, like: upon grad, you spent “x” dollars on a car loan. How long would it take to pay it off if only a minimum payments are made? How much would the car have cost in reality, by the last payment date? (Gee, Is it possible I’d still be paying for that car 10 years after it went to the junkyard?) Most kids would love to daydream of having a car, so just using that one example, SO, SO, much could be taught! How much can you afford to spend on a car if you’re making “x” dollars an hour, “x” numbers of hours a month.
- Learning to look at the BIG PICTURE: associated costs; What costs could be associated with buying that car? Taxes? Insurance? Depreciation? What kind of maintenance costs? Winter tires? How to decide how to buy the insurance? (Like what % rate is the insurance co. charging to take the insurance monthly, vs. borrowing a year’s worth of insurance from the bank?
- What if I need money for an unexpected thing that cropped up? Can I use the car for equity? Why, why not? Then maybe it will dawn on a kid that some things depreciate, while other things might be a more solid investment.
- Again: Big Picture. Using going to the prom, could show how it’s not just the dress and the limo, but gas for several trips to look for a dress. Oh, you got hungry on that trip – did you buy a milkshake, burger & fries? Buying flowers? Having a picture taken? This class should be the year before prom, but it would be relevant. This could be a great time to discuss how our emotions, insecure feelings can be “invisible things” that can cause us to spend waaay more than we should.
How to forecast for budgeting, how to keep the records.
#4 brings up an interesting point: How to tell & who to go to, to trust, for financial advice. When to pay for it, and how to know if the person is my, another’s, or represents the interests of more than one party. Are there basic laws (I’m thinking ‘arms length’, to protect the consumer? How do we know when someone has/hasn’t the legal capacity to act for us, when maybe they have something to sell us. Who may or may not have our best interest at heart? When -or do – agents have to disclose? What if I think I made a mistake – can I go back on a contract within a certain ammount of time?
#5 -Facets of: “What does “The fine print” mean?” Is “Whull, I didn’t knoooow…” ever a valid excuse?
- A few points re: verbal vs “Get It In Writing”
- Credit ratings. |Can they follow you throughout your whole life? Can a good rating save you money or a bad rating cost you more? Compare two people. One graduates college with a good rating, one with a bad rating. How much more could the person with the bad rating suffer – and what you should expect/could command if your rating is excellent. Protecting our identy. What to do if you lose your credit card. Are ya liable?
-All kids should get a few go rounds about their income tax, should they get a job, using mock income tax forms.
- Lessons in very basic accounting starting/running a business such as lawn maintenance, babysitting. Who is in business? You are! Everyone is in business for themselves. You are either running it well or poorly.
#6 – Attitudes towards money. Did you ever get mixed messages about it? “Money is the root of all evil.” Money is neither good or bad. It is a tool which is used well, or poorly, and that is relative to each person’s moral beliefs.
- What about gambling? I do remember something about the Law Of Averages in a math class. But they talked about stuff like lightning strikes, never mentioned gambling.
- Attitudes towards money are often formed on an unconscious basis, a belief pattern cobbled together from all around us. Many sayings encapsulate the attitudes. The various attitudes run the gamut from “Easy come, easy go” to “Put your nose to the grindstone, a penny saved is a penny earned.” What imight a balanced “middle way” attitude look like?
#7 – Everything. It would have changed everything about my whole life from graduation till now, decades later, and most probably, on into my future.
#8 – What it might take to change this might be somebody who goes through the school system, graduating with good grades, and then getting a fancy pants smart lawyer to sue the school system for failure to educate on these issues. Hey, who knows, if a company could sue over hot coffee being hot…
What resources do I have? I don’t know. I’m a low-tech person in a tiny country village. But we just got on the jar system today, and we want to be able to pass on what we’ve learned, once we know we’ve understood the method right and have been practising it for awhile.
All I want to say now, is thank you for being out there, and sharing so generously of yourself. It’s so late, and it was such a long busy day, and I’m not used to writing in such a small square as this comment space allows. If you need me to rewrite my comments, I’d surely do it if need be. Don’t want to spend the time tonight though, as I’m sooo tired, and might be just saying what many others have already said. So yeah, thanks again, so much!
April 14, 2009 at 9:22 am
I believe that the schools should be educating children on money as not every child will be taught that at home and it is one of the most important skills they will need after leaving school. I believe that simple concepts around money should be taught as early as grade one. I think that all kids should learn the following concepts before grade 10: the value of compounded interest, loans and the cost of borrowing, budgeting concepts, how to file an income tax return, what RRSP’s & Pension Plans are , about mortgages and about credit reports and their importance. We simply live in a world where families are divided and spread out now and elders do not always have the opportunity to pass down their wisdom to the next generation. Let’s let our youth have a fighting chance at being successful!
April 18, 2009 at 6:23 pm
1. Do you think schools should teach children how money works and how to manage it? YES YES YES
2.At what grade do you believe this education should begin? I believe that it should begin in grade one
And end? in grade 12
3.List six topics you think schools should cover when it comes to teaching money management. 1. RRSP 2. Income tax,EI,CPP 3. Compound Intrest 4. Importance of savings/emergency fund 5. ins and outs of purchasing a house 6. insurance
4.What role do you think others (parents, bankers, community groups) should play in the education of our kids, specifically about money?
partenership role, early and on going conversations and lessons
5. Do you agree or disagree with the statement: Financial institutions should be held liable for lending irresponsibly when they don’t “educate” before they lend. (Elaborate if you wish.)
Disagree, but I do believe that before any money is given to a client they need to be fully aware of and penaltites ect that can occur.
As well when they give a client a preapproval amount for a mortgage they need to explain how they came up with this figure and make sure the client is aware of all of their other expenses.
What three things about money do you wish you had learned earlier?
1. how to budget properly
2. that CC are important for things like hotel reservations and car rentals but not for shopping sprees and wants
3. That from day one of earning or being given money you have to save some of it. It isn’t all for fun and games
What mistakes could you have avoided if you’d known more about how money works?
What do you think it will take to change The System and ensure the next generation of adults knows how money works?
Do you have resources you would recommend to help schools, teachers, parents, help children learn about money?
What else would you like to say on this topic?
June 7, 2009 at 7:06 pm
[...] his or her own way in life.J.D.’s note: Canadian financial guru Gail Vaz-Oxlade has posted a survey about kids and money this morning. If you’re in Canada, go help her out by answering the questions!—Related [...]
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