This & That: Smell the Coffee Edition
Posted by Gail | Filed under This & That
Sarah wrote: I was wondering how it works with credit card companies and their responsibilities to a client, (me) in regards to my credit limit. I have a $6100 limit on my credit card, and my boyfriend took me away on a vacation to Chicago for 4 days. I went knowing that I was fairly close to my limit with roughly $600 under it, (I’m working on my debts, and I hadn’t used my credit card in months). I was expecting to spend some money and that if I went over my limit that I would be told by the credit card company. I was never told, I ended up getting somewhat out of control with my spending and came home at $1700 over. I realize that it is my job to monitor my accounts, but at what point does the credit card company have responsibility since they deemed my credit maximum of $6100 knowing that over that was over my financial limits. How can they not deem me credible enough to raise my credit limit, but can allow me to spend much more than what that credit limit is? Why didn’t they stop transactions since they set the limit? I was relying on them somewhat as math is clearly not my strong suit, and I needed them to follow-through on their promises to also monitor my account and prevent excessive spending. How did they know I didn’t have my card stolen and someone was on a spending spree? I never even got a phone call inquiring as to my (excessive) purchases.
I am taking responsibility but I really don’t believe this is entirely MY fault. I could understand $200 dollars over, but $1700??? Why did I even have a limit in the first place? I feel completely taken advantage of where I have 22% interest on an amount over what the agreed upon credit limit was, and $35 over limit fees every month. I am not able to financially pay the whole thing off, and can meet just over the minimum payments – which they would have known because my credit limit is not allowed to be raised. What do I do? I feel entirely screwed over and trapped by my credit card company and I would never have been this badly off if they had done what we had agreed upon with the terms of my credit card contract – a limit of $6100. Am I wrong, is this entirely on me, or do they have any responsibility whatsoever? I feel they just do whatever they want, and I pay for it. Please help.
Gail says: You say you are “taking responsibility” and then you say you don’t believe this is entirely your fault. Hmm. I’m questioning your commitment to taking take of your problem. You’re talking the talk, girl, but you are not walking the walk.
Credit card companies don’t have any responsibility to stop you shopping. In fact, if you go over your limit, many credit card companies charge you an “over limit fee”, thus making even more money from your lack of self-control.
If you are counting on the credit card company — which, by the way, makes money off your inability to take control of your spending — to call and warn you, you’re nuts. They’re happy when you rush off and scratch your consumer itch because they’ve got you right where they want you paying loads of interest and, perhaps now, even fees.
If you’re screwed it’s because you’ve screwed yourself. And if you’re trying to blame the credit card company because you have no self-control, then it’s time to wake up and smell the coffee.
I am in total awe of your disconnect with your own personal responsibility for the mess you’ve made.
Stop being angry at the credit card company for digging you this hole. You dug the hole. Now it’s time to get yourself out.
Turn your anger into positive action. Make a plan to get out of debt by doing whatever it takes, and then tell the credit card company to take a long walk off a short pier… that’s the best revenge. It’s time for you to take control of your money and your life.
K wrote: I’m 24 years old and have approx $60,000 in debt. The majority of that debt is due to a home I co-signed on that foreclosed leaving a $35,000 shortfall. The signer filed for bankruptcy and now my wages are being garnished bi-weekly at $250. I have a student loan ($11,547 balance) but have only been out of school for 3yrs and have a car loan that I pay $504 monthly for a 66-month lease to own vehicle ($10,225 balance), I am in my 3rd of my lease, I have one department store credit card that is closed and I’m currently paying off. I work for the TDSB and make a fairly good income for someone my age but admit I made foolish mistakes financially. I am trying to decide whether to do a proposal or a bankruptcy…. I have spoken to someone and they feel I should do a bankruptcy because of my student loan because if I did a proposal I would still be charged the interest while in the proposal time of 4yrs. I’m concerned with how lenders view a applicant who has taken this path to resolving debts and what is the best way to dig myself from this hole? Please help!!!
Gail says: Whatever possessed you to co-sign a loan for someone else? No matter how much you may love a body, co-signing for them is a bad idea since you can NEVER predict how another person is going to end up behaving. And if a body can’t qualify for credit on their own, they probably shouldn’t have it.
As for whether you should file for bankruptcy or go with a consumer proposal, you need to know that your student loans will NOT be discharged under a bankruptcy filing because you haven’t been out of school long enough yet. The new rules that came into effect in September 2009 reduced the time you have to wait from 10 years to 7, but you still have a way to go to hit that mark.
Also know that debts that are secured cannot be discharged, so your car loan, which is secured by the car itself won’t be eliminated as part of the bankruptcy.
As for the long-term impact, declaring bankruptcy (or even doing a consumer proposal) will ruin your credit history, wipe out your credit score, and leave a black mark against your credit name for up to seven years. That being said, if you can’t manage your current debt load and keep a roof over your head, then bankruptcy may be your best option.
G wrote: I have a money issue that is pressing and I know you have the answer. My daughter is 28, a pharmacist and she earns about 80,000.00 before taxes. She could have finished school with no debt as her father and I paid her tuition and basic expenses, but she chose to take a “line of credit” with Scotiabank that she used in her last two years to finance meals out, pricier accommodations etc. so she has left herself with about 45,000.00 personal debt and now has a 250,000.00 condo mortgage. But these are not the real issue. The burning issue I have is that when she was growing up she was indulged with a horse and riding lessons (the usual girlhood fascination with ponies) but now she has, in order to feel less bored or fulfilled or whatever, resumed riding to the tune of, conservatively, 900.00 a month! She cannot afford this and is constantly worried about money but it seems like an addiction, and addiction that is fed of course by the stable owner who makes her own living off feeding the fancies of these girls. How do I get her to defer her riding addiction until such time as she has retired her consumer debt and could maybe “afford” it? It is driving a wedge in between us because I want to be able to see her free of debt and even help her get ahead but I refuse to help her financially while she “wastes” over 900.00 a month.
Gail says: If there were a time you should have been all over her, it was when you were working to keep her out of debt by paying for her schooling while she was going into debt for meals out and pricier accommodations. She is now a woman with a life of her own, and she has to be responsible for her own decisions. You can’t make her see the light. You can’t make anyone see the light. Believe me because I’m the Queen of Light Shining! They have to want things to be different to MAKE things different. As for the stable-owner playing into her fantasy, that’s a little harsh. The stable owner is doing what stable-owners (and horsy people in general) do… living a life. If your daughter can’t make the distinction between a need and a want, that’s hardly the stable-owner’s fault.
If your daughter’s behaviour is driving a wedge between you, you have to ask yourself why. Does she have to live by your rules to receive your approval and love? Or can you be happy for her joy, even as you bite your tongue on her horse addiction. I totally agree that you should not “help” her. The girl makes $80K a year… why in heaven’s name would she need help. If you give her money it is you who is playing into her fantasy that she can have whatever she wants whenever she wants. You, mommy, must keep your hand out of your purse, even if it all comes crashing down and she comes crying for help. She’s a big girl. Treat her like the responsible adult you want her to be. But you should go to the stable and brush that horse! You’ll be amazed at how it’ll calm your nerves. And sharing this passion with your daughter, while you speak sensibly and consistently about life, personal responsibility and your own financial challenges will go a lot further in reach her. And it’ll do wonders for strengthening your bond.
October 11, 2012 at 8:02 am
I thought I’d read everything after reading this blog for so long, but I’ve never heard of blaming the credit card company for excessive spending. This lack of responsibility astounds me. And, the other two aren’t operating with a full deck either. How can well-educated people lack basic common sense when it comes to money?
October 11, 2012 at 8:31 am
I try not to judge when I read other people’s stories, but that first one was crazy! $600 under the limit + $1700 over the limit = $2300 over four days! That averages out to $575 a day!! And to suggest the credit card company was at fault for not declining transactions once she hit her limit? Oh dear.
October 11, 2012 at 8:41 am
I can see misjudging your spending on holiday by a few dollars…but 1700? Wow, can’t see how anyone could do that. That being said, I thought that once you reached your limit on a credit card, it was declined? Clearly didn’t happen here.
October 11, 2012 at 8:49 am
That first story is so ridiculous, I don’t even believe it! It must be made up. If it is true, nothing will ever ever ever be Sarah’s fault.
October 11, 2012 at 9:29 am
@ Heather and others – remember that credit card purchases aren’t technically processed like debit card purchases – it takes a few days for a transaction to move from pending to posted on the account, so it would be impossible for the credit card company to just ‘turn off the account’ even if they wanted to. (Pending transactions don’t always get posted aka final, ie when I pump gas my pending transaction shows my preauth at $80 but my posted shows my actual, ie $57.44). Also and Gail touches on this – it’s in the best interest of the credit card company to let you go over, as they will charge fees for this. They play a balancing act of trying to let people spend more than they should, while not enough that they won’t get paid back.
There’s an old joke on this: “If I owe someone $1000, it’s my problem. If I owe them $1,000,000 it’s their problem.”
October 11, 2012 at 9:36 am
I agree with the thinking here the first story Sarah is ridiculous! That being said why in the Hell did the credit card company not start declining transactions? Ive seen shows like some of Gail’s in the past where they show the person trying to do a transaction and then it gets declined cause they have reached there limit. Mind you had Sarah been paying attention to her own spending..as she admitted to being 600$ shy of her limit then why over 4 days did she not spend that (however unwise it may be). That first story is just beyond my understanding. Sarah is the one at fault but I’d also say her credit card company could do with declining her transactions..I mean don’t some charge fees for using card when declined? And worse case scenario what if it was stolen and someone else ran up the card..wouldn’t it have been declined? I assume credit card companies figure the customer knows their own limit. I know people who cards have been deemed compromised credit and debit because the transactions of the fraudster were going beyond the persons account limits. Hmmmm Sarah’s story is strange indeed.
October 11, 2012 at 9:44 am
I commend Gail on the grouping of stories – this is definitely the “smell the coffee” edition indeeed. I think like everyone else I am left shaking my head.
I think this is why I never got into Princess (sorry Gail!), because its not a group I will ever empathise with.
I went to Chicago for four days earlier this year on a girlfriends shopping trip. I spent a little under $1,000 including travel, accomodations, food and quite a lot of shopping. I had felt some guilt about the bags of “stuff” I brought home (even though I have no consumer debt). But I feel much better now!
October 11, 2012 at 9:58 am
Gail your replies today are absolutely terrific. I sincerely enjoyed reading them.
Queen of the Light Shinning = amazing.
October 11, 2012 at 10:20 am
Sarah, dump your boyfriend. He decided to take you to Chicago but obviously you paid for quite a lot of the trip.
Gail, great advice!
October 11, 2012 at 10:21 am
Like Gail says, CC companies make money from people’s lack of control – allowing people to spend over their limit gives them an opportunity to charge an over-limit fee under the guise of ‘being nice to their customer’.
Expecting them to look out for one’s interest is like entrusting the burgler with your house keys.
October 11, 2012 at 10:30 am
@ Geoff et al
Each pending transaction is given an authorization number, and the amount is deducted from available credit. Even though it might tell you that you balance is less, when you hear the available credit, it will tell that it’s less as well (meaning that there is obviously a transaction pending).
This is also a rehash of a previous e-mail I think (unless there are two such ridiculous people in the world). It is hilarious to read that she knows she’s responsible in one breath, and then blames the credit company.
If I’m in a foreign country (I’m assuming the gal’s from Canada), and I’m charging items on my card, I *want* the credit card company to excuse my limit should I be bumping up against it. Anytime I’m charging something, if I hit the limit, I *want* the assumption to be in my favour, that I know what I’m doing. I don’t want the credit card being “all big brother” on me….
Although, I do want the proper checks and balances made — so one hopes that there was some sort of identification check to avoid the fact that maybe my card got stolen.
October 11, 2012 at 10:35 am
To Sarah… wow… I don’t really see how spending “some money” is more than $2000. Spending more than $500 per day and she couldn’t see how she would go over her credit limit? Oh dear.
October 11, 2012 at 11:30 am
Sarah’s lack of personal responsibility is shocking. CC companies have no obligation to police their customer’s spending, and that’s one of the ways they make money.
The part of Sarah’s letter that jumped out at me was her explanation for how much was owing on the credit card before the weekend away. She was $600 under the $6100 limit *because she hadn’t used the card in months and had been working on her debt*. That tells me that normally she’s right at the limit, and after months of not using that card (does anyone doubt that there are many other cards in her wallet?) and working on paying down the debt, she had only paid down $600. Also, she’s not working very hard on paying down her debt, if she decided to spend right back up to the credit limit on a vacation.
She wrote “I feel they do whatever they want, and I pay for it.” Like Gail and the other posters here, I’m ASTOUNDED that she thinks the bank is at fault for her own spending spree, and feels resentful that she’s actually expected to pay for the stuff she bought in Chicago.
Also, Natalie – I hope your comment was a joke, and that you wouldn’t expect your boyfriend to pay for your shopping spree if he offered to treat you to a weekend away. If he had pulled a bait and switch (offering to pay for the hotel/flight and then not doing so), maybe I could see your point, but that’s not what Sarah wrote – she wrote that her got out of control with her spending (to the tune of $500 a day!) – not that she unexpectedly had to pay for her flight home.
October 11, 2012 at 11:45 am
The Queen of Light Shining tells it like it is! I had to read this one twice.
October 11, 2012 at 11:46 am
As I always say, the problem is NEVER external..they are ALWAYS internal, within us. Money problems are always extensions of one’s insecurities and lack of courage to take personal responsibility, to look deep, deep, deep inside of oneself and own up to issues. It takes real courage to take ownership. It’s always someone else’s fault, isn’t it??!! We NEED more Gails in the world to TELL IT like IT SHOULD BE TOLD! Wake up folks! The world happens, and we have control over only one thing…US!
October 11, 2012 at 11:51 am
“Does she have to live by your rules to receive your approval and love? Or can you be happy for her joy, even as you bite your tongue on her horse addiction. ” – LOVE IT!
October 11, 2012 at 11:53 am
@ Kat – I still believe it depends on how efficient the technology is, particularly in cross border situations – ie not all transactions are swiped.
But it doesn’t really matter, as we all believe this girl is just plain off her rocker. And agree on all points – assume I’m a responsible adult before declining.
October 11, 2012 at 12:36 pm
Really disgusted by the first lady. Actually gives me a sick feeling to know there are such dumb individuals out there! Scary and these people drive next to you on the roads.
You swipe your card, it is your problem. Unbelievable to think otherwise.
October 11, 2012 at 1:01 pm
I had the opposite happen with my Amex Platinum card — was used for work travel, paid off every month, no limit, lots of extras. I was on a two week work trip to the US and as I was checking into my hotel, the card was declined. Astonished, I found out that Amex had arbitrarily and suddenly put a hard limit on my card — which, again, was paid in full every month, no matter the amount, for more than a year of use and possession. This hard limit was $500 above the current balance. I was left for the remainder of the trip with no access to this card — had to use personal cash for all expenses. And I received no explanation as to why other than it was up to their credit department. Needless to say, that card was cancelled.
Platinum service my A$$.
October 11, 2012 at 1:26 pm
In Sarah’s defense, I too made this mistake many years ago. I assumed the credit card company would decline my purchases once I went over my limit, so I paid no attention to the totals of what I was buying (this was back in my shopaholic phase). I went on a trip to Paris and was buying in French francs so it was not immediately obvious how much I was spending and I came home to a bill that was far over the limit. I called my CC company and asked them to change my account settings so it would no longer approve purchases over the limit, which they did. And then I paid closer attention and paid off the debt.
October 11, 2012 at 3:23 pm
@Natalie
You crack me up!!! Thanks for the smile today.
October 11, 2012 at 4:23 pm
Oh Sarah, heed Gail’s advice. You obviously don’t know how to control your spending and you have a magical way of thinking that a $600 potential limit cannot turn into $1700 more while you are using your card? And then that’s the cc company’s fault not yours?
If you need a big brother approach to protect you from yourself, I advise leaving town with no credit cards and a limited amount of cash. Maybe then you will pay more attention to what purchases you are indulging in, while having your accommodations and travel expenses paid for by your guy.
In a year, look back on those purchases you will no doubt be still paying on, and ask yourself what they are then worth, adding in all the interest you are paying.
You are right. You are entirely screwed, but you did it to yourself, the cc company didn’t do it to you. Take personal responsibility, grow up and pay off that debt asap and stop indulging yourself during the payoff time. Learn the lesson this vacation gave you; you will sleep better knowing you owe no debt when you pay this off. Cash is king and necessary for someone like you. Shred the cards till you learn that lesson. You can do it.
October 11, 2012 at 8:36 pm
RE: Sarah’s story
This could possibly be the most ridiculous yet entertaining post I have ever read in this blog. I was laughing my head off because this can’t be real. Gail, you must touch base with this girl & get her on your MoneyMoron Show. She deserves some smacking from you.
October 11, 2012 at 11:36 pm
Re: Sarah’s story- lots of people, and I mean LOTS- make this mistake. It seems that nobody tracks their spending. I work at a bank and see it all the time. The customer’s responses are always the same- “why wasn’t my card declined?”
Because the CC companies want to make money, plain and simple.
I believe that if you call your credit card company, and request that your card gets declined as opposed to being able to make a purchase that exceeds your credit limit (resulting in an over-limit fee), then they should be able to do that for you. But you have to request it. I’m not sure if this is the same for all CC companies.
October 12, 2012 at 6:46 am
As many others have posted, Sarah needs to stop blaming the credit card company and take responsibility for her own over spending. I’m not saying I perfect either, in my early 20s I came close to maxing out my credit card, but I certainly did not blame the credit card company for MY spending! I can’t believe she spent $2300 in that short of time, I am planning a trip Hawaii in February and have saved $3000 for it and I think that is plenty! Heck in 2009 I went to Scotland for a week and spent about that much and that includes a couple days of a rental car!
I feel bad for K, it was not a smart thing to do, co-signing for someone, but they are quite young and I can at least understand how they could get into that situation if it was someone they loved. I am in my 30s and felt horrilbe when I told my mother I would not co-sign a loan for her. When you are younger sometimes it is hard to let your head rather than your heart make the decision.
As for G, Gail is right she just needs to back of and be there emotionally but NOT financially for her daughter. You can’t force anyone to change if they don’t want to, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t still have a loving relationship.
October 12, 2012 at 7:51 am
Funny – I was thinking that it was the boyfriend who should leave Sarah. Anyone who is that clueless about money and has that little self-control is only going to cause him heartache. Think of all the things that will be his fault in the future.
October 12, 2012 at 9:29 am
Seems to me that Sarah needs to grow up. You didnt have the money for the trip let alone your little spending spree. If you were able to (assuming your not) you could start by RETURNING those purchases and having the transactions reversed. Then once you have brought your account back into order, CLOSE IT!!! You clearly need to grow up a little, and learn to handle money. Until then, you shouldn’t have credit of any kind.
October 12, 2012 at 3:42 pm
Wow… are these for real?!?
October 12, 2012 at 4:30 pm
Sarah’s story (though crazy to us ‘Gail-Followers’) is very common. I work for a bank and I hear customers questionning, ‘well why did you approve it if it was over-limit?”. Clearly there is a portion of people who think it IS the bank’s job to police spending, and apparently that banks are non-profit organizations.
With that said, some institutions are particularly harsh in their over limit policies, seems like they are targeted at individuals who are naive or foolish enough to not monitor and manage their spending.
October 13, 2012 at 11:44 am
The first story raises an interesting question for me though. How far over my limit do I get to go? $1,700 seems ridiculously high to me as I’ve had limit bumps offered by the credit card company that were around that amount that required my ok. I assume there’s some sort of formula they follow – at this percentage of your limit we cut you off versus this percentage of your limit is “acceptable”?
October 14, 2012 at 11:29 pm
I’m so excited for all of you who have never, ever overindulged! It must be nice. Yes, the numbers seem high to me too, but no one’s mistakes have ever been undone by the mockery of others. I’d rather have troubles with money than be as nasty and rude as you folks. I have no doubt that you’re all financially fine since no one would want to be near your judgemental selves! I was under the wildly incorrect assumption that this was a helpful community of like-minded people seeking guidance with financial missteps. Glad I understand now.
October 15, 2012 at 8:45 am
@Red. You are so right. It is easy to sling insults anonymously from behind the computer screen. These people write because they are looking for help. That being said, when they put it out there they do have to be prepared for the truth from Gail. She will not sugar coat the message.
October 15, 2012 at 10:41 am
I have to say, while I still think Sarah’s numbers are high, I get how someone watching their spending can still hit their credit card limit. For example, right now, if I log into my bank account it says I owe about $70 on my credit card. However, I knew I also had to put a huge hotel bill on it recently, so was expecting it to be closer to $1000. I only happened to notice that it said my available credit was $92 and the card has a limit of $2000. Based on knowing my own spending, I was expecting to have close to $1000 free.
If I hadn’t noticed this before I went grocery shopping, I would have been tempted to put my groceries on my credit card (normal). I pay off my card every month, so I never carry a balance. But, right now, even though I *know* there isn’t enough correct charges to hit close to my limit, until my card shows me the missing transactions, I better not use it without being very careful as to how much I’m putting on.
If I hadn’t happened to notice this one number on a page of many, it would have been super easy for me to go over the limit. So carefully tracking your own spending can often not be good enough.
October 15, 2012 at 1:44 pm
**credit card tip** You can call your ccrd company and ask for no expansion on your limits.
Gail, I loved the response to the mother. Her daughter is a grown woman with a good career & income. She was fortunate to have her education paid for and chose to take on some student debt. yes, $45000 is a lot of money, but it’s her debt, not her mothers. The mortgage is a reasonable amount for her income. If she gets joy from her horse and feels she can afford it, then that is her business. Maybe she wants to afford the freedom of riding her horse while she still has the freedom to do so. So maybe she takes a little longer to pay off the LOC, but in a few years if she has a family of her own or a pharmacy of her own to run, will she have time for a horse? probably not – enjoy it while you can if you can afford it!
October 17, 2012 at 6:25 pm
I am a horsey girl! I am 25 years old, and make about $46,000/yr gross. I have a LOC from school and past mistakes, as well as a car loan I’m slowly paying down. If you were to look at my budget, you’d likely scream at the $400+ I pay to ride every month. Without it, though, I’d go insane. I officiate sports to help offset some of the cost, and I am really careful with the rest of my budget so I can have my big splurge. I decided to make peace with not having money to save for travel, and I furnished my apartment off Kijiji and Craigslist. I rarely eat out and “miss out” on things like concerts and nights out with friends, but when I see the horse I ride, it doesn’t matter. Gail never cuts “entertainment” out of families’ budgets for a reason. Leave us grown kids alone to make our own choices, and pipe down about our horsey hobbies!
October 18, 2012 at 12:44 am
i have to admit i was a bit concerned with ms sarah and her over-the-limit spending. then i took a look in the mirror of harsh reality and realized the face staring back at me was none other than my own! i’ve been there and know how easily i fell into the blame-someone-else game; after all, i’m an intelligent woman, responsible, etc…so while many chose to question the veracity of the situation i can tell you this:
today i paid numbers 3 & 4 of 6 debts off. in full. numbers 5 & 6 will be paid off by the end of november and yes! i do have an emergency fund, savings, and contribute to my 403(b). i’ve taken the gail way to heart and found the $$$ to make all this happen.
sarah made a dumb mistake and chooses to blame her cc company. why? because it’s a damn sight easier than taking responsibility herself. because it is damn hard to accept she did it herself. because she doesn’t want to accept that it’s up to her to pull herself together.
any of that sound familiar to anyone??? i’ve read gail’s blogs for years and only in the last 12-18 months have i started living the gail way. finally took all the lessons to heart and began to walk the walk. and i will be the first to admit that i was as hard-headed as ms sarah for quite some time.
i’ll also be the first to thank her for sharing as i know for a fact i never ever want to go back to where i was. it gives me great pleasure to see my cc balances at a big fat 0. i got myself into it, i’ve gotten myself almost out.
perhaps we ought to give ms sarah the same (forgiving) chance i gave myself. with all respect, let’s by all means pat ourselves on the back for making changes and/or faithfully living by gail’s wisdom-while not gloating or putting someone down for her very human reaction. without ms sarah, wouldn’t some of you not feel quite so smart???? just asking you to think about it a bit.
thank you gail for giving me a second (third, fourth…..) chance. you are the candle that has lit my path for these past years!
October 21, 2012 at 11:01 am
@LD has it right. When I was 26, I followed a couple dreams and bought a horse and a condominium in the same month. I struggled for about 5 years going in and out of debt [sometimes my paycheque would bring my overdraft back up to zero
] but eventually I got my s..t together and got my life and bank statements to balance. I had my horse for 19 incredible years before he had to be put down – I’ve never regretted a dollar that I paid on or for him. I met people through “horsing around” who are so important to my life and having Peppy helped me to reconnect with my father. Gail is right that the mother should spend some time grooming her daughter’s horse – actually riding a horse is a great experience but the sense of peace a person gets grooming a horse is totally beyond words or understanding. I’m now 55 and 5 years ago started to ride again – I ended up having a few falls and shouldn’t ride anymore but that doesn’t stop me from borrowing a friend’s horse to brush, feed treats to and hug.