The Gravy Train
Posted by Gail | Filed under Life Lessons, Money & Family
I recently received an email from a woman whose second husband’s grown children will not get off the gravy train. The eldest is 35, borrows money and never repays. Next comes a 33 year old woman with six kids by three separate fathers who is the “queen of guilt.” And then there’s the baby; she’s 21 and will not leave college because as long as she’s in school, she’s got a free ride. This woman earns twice as much as her husband, and feels their money should be going toward their own debt repayment, not to support his grown children.
Here’s how I weigh in on this. Since I, too, have been a step-parent, I know it is difficult to watch as someone else “spoils” their children by giving them everything, while you just sit by and watch. It’s hard to understand. It’s even harder to live with. But when you married a man with children, contrary to what you may have thought at the time, you married him AND his children. It would be wonderful if they were independent and strong, loving and supportive. If they’re not, it’s rotten. But that’s life.
You have some choices. You can separate your money, each sharing half the common expenses, which would mean if he wanted to give his children money, it would have to come from his pool of money. Then you could focus on getting the debt paid off. And/or you could have a conversation with your husband and explain your growing resentment, and the fact that it’s time for the kids to stand on their own two feet. (I don’t hold out much hope for you convincing him, however. Since I’m also a parent, I know just what suckers we are when it comes to our babies.)
It isn’t only step-parents who feel frustrated when adult children refuse to get off the gravy train. Your own flesh and blood can feel like a house of bricks when it comes to weighing their immediate needs against your own long-term needs. While it’s nice to help when you can, the “when you can” means you do need to be taking care of your own financial plan: saving for emergencies, saving for retirement, paying down your house, becoming debt free before you retire.
When desperate baby birds come banging on the door asking for worms, it’s pretty hard for a momma or pappa bird to kick ‘em out of the nest. “Guilt” is the number one reason parents just can’t turn away. Whether they feel they didn’t do a great job of preparing their kids for the future, or they believe their kids just didn’t have the right kind of opportunities, they allow emotion to drive their actions.
People, guilt is a waste of emotion. It serves no useful purpose. And it makes people act in destructive – both to themselves and to their children – ways.
Who said money had to come with no strings. Yes, LOVE comes with no strings. You’ll love your children no matter what. And it doesn’t matter what jerks, lazy louts or good-for-nothin’s they are, you’ll always love them. But the same rule doesn’t have to apply to money.
Money is a medium of exchange, and so you have to ask yourself what you’re exchanging your money for. If it’s just to assuage your guilt (justified or not), you’re a fool because it doesn’t work. If it is to genuinely help your children, then how are you helping exactly?
Handouts don’t help. A never-ending pot of money that seems bottomless and therefore never has to be managed is a bad thing for kids to think they have. Money invested to help children learn and grow is something altogether different.
I can’t tell you in which circumstances you should give your kids money, and in which you shouldn’t. But you should at least ask yourself the question, “Am I really HELPING my child, or just giving them money so they’ll go away and leave me alone?”
I can think of hundreds of situations in which I might help my child financially. But I would always want a lesson to be attached to the money so I wouldn’t have to give them money for that thing again. So the first time my child’s car needed a major repair he was unprepared for, I may fork over money to help with the understanding that he needs to build up a car maintenance fund, and will now start to put $50 a month into an account for just such a purpose, because I’m not doing this again.
Sometimes it’s hard to teach the lesson in the midst of whatever crisis your child is dealing with. Maybe you’ll have to wait until calmer moments to reflect on the situation you’ve dealt with, and how you, as a parent, want your child to deal with it in the future.
And as for the “you can’t tell me what to do” crap some kids like to toss as parents are sticking their wallets back in their pockets, my response is, “You’re right, honey, I can’t. But I also don’t have to finance you as you make the same mistake over and over. I won’t support your ignorance. So if you don’t want to learn this lesson, get a(nother) job and pay for your own mistakes.”
I’m not sure why some children would sooner chop off their right hands than ask for a handout, while others have no trouble riding the gravy train over and over and over. I honestly don’t know.
I do know we do our best as parents and then we pray.
However, your role as a parent does NOT mean you must pay for whatever mistakes your children choose to make ad infinitum. Their mistakes are theirs to pay for. That’s part of being a grown-up. If you’re not letting your children grow up, that may be the biggest mistake you make.
January 23, 2009 at 7:11 am
When it comes to adult children that are part of a second marriage, the best advice is the first advice offered. Keep your finances separate, and contribute your portions to a household account for household expenses. The parent of the children that won’t disembark from the ‘gravy train’ needs to feed their guilt with their own funds. It’s a no-win situation for the other spouse. Harsh but true. The ultimate would be for the parent of the ‘gravy train’ children to cut them off, but you can’t force that on them. It’s ultimately their choice. Don’t let it ruin your life together. However well-meaning a parent may be, it’s not the best thing to continue to bail your children out.
January 23, 2009 at 8:28 am
Great read Gail. My friends and I are all in our 30’s and are all married with children. Personally, I cant stand the thought of asking for help from my parents but due to that they buy me things often and when I have had to ask in the past they know I really need the help. (actually, I was a little embarrassed when my mom found out I was having my coat zipper repaired and paid the lady before I picked up my coat for me)
I have other friends, who believe it is their right (or something like that) to have their parents bail them out, one friend almost lost her house after not paying (and not having a good reason not to pay) for 5 months and the parents would not give the money or didn’t have it to give. The last time she didn’t feel like paying the mortgage her mom paid the whole thing and now she is angry that no one is interested in helping yet again. Another friends parents will be supporting their mortgage and other money during a dual lay off in their home while friend continues do spend money (granted, they are paring down, but I think they could do better, but the mom is also enabling this and always has).
I do believe it is our job as parents to teach our children to be self sufficient, help them up when they are down but lead them so they aren’t down that often (and when they are, they can cut costs, find more employment ect)
The gravy train is an awful ride, when children are adults they should be able to look after themselves… and I hope when my daughter is an adult she wont believe I am her personal banker… my husband and I have high hopes of enjoying all of our own nickels and dimes when she is all grown up.
January 23, 2009 at 9:17 am
I moved out of my parent’s house at 19 and paid my own way through school while watching my parents support my brother until he was 28 years old. They bailed him out of so many snafus and unpaid bills and co-signed loans he defaulted on, I can’t count.
At the time, I was concerned about their retirement (should people in their 50’s and 60’s really be financing a grown man?) and now I remain resentful because when I would’ve liked some help- for instance in buying my first home- there was no help to give because my brother had bled my parents dry. The worst part is that it has contributed to my feeling of being the dis-favored child that I can’t seem to shake.
Anyway, this is not to whine, but just to say “Parents, think about what you are doing to your children and your family harmony- no good can come from this.”
January 23, 2009 at 9:27 am
I hated, loathed, despised asking my parents for financial help when I was in school, because I felt I should be an independent adult. They knew when I asked, I must have been desperate. I only had to ask a couple of times during my many years pursuing my doctorate, but like Gail, they ensured that a lesson was learned-i.e., they cosigned a small consolidation loan for my husband and I rather than giving us the money or loaning it to us directly. I would have eaten cat food before letting that loan payment go unpaid, because I didn’t want my parents to be called upon to pay, and be disappointed in me. I was so proud when I got to call my parents and tell them that I was awarded a major scholarship and hence was able to pay off the loan much earlier than planned. Part of my desire to build an emergency fund, have disability insurance, and live within our means is that I never ever want to have to ask anyone else for financial help again. I want my husband and I to stand on our own two (four?) feet.
There are other people I know who’s parents have remortgaged their homes to bail out their kids on multiple occasions, and clearly, the lesson has never been learned. My mom always said, “You don’t solve money problems with money”. If I have kids, I’ll certainly remember that one!
January 23, 2009 at 9:29 am
My brother is 10 years older than me, and at 35, he still comes running to mum because he can’t keep the heat on at his place, he needs rent money, he needs a car for a new job, etc.
I, on the other hand, would rather chew off my own ankle than ask my parents for money. I know exactly where that sense comes from: whatching my brother come back every month for another handout. Watching that, I knew that whatever happened, I was not going to put my mother through the same thing.
Jewel’s got a point though: it definitely messes with the family dynamic.
January 23, 2009 at 9:40 am
“I do know we do our best as parents and then we pray.” So true, Gail. This applies to all different areas. People are so quick to blame parents for everything and while their influence is strong, there is still a wild card factor that no one has control over.
January 23, 2009 at 1:19 pm
I asked my parents for money only once in college and I didn’t want to but I was broke. After that I built a buffer into my budget so I wouldn’t have to ask. My parents also cosigned on a PLUS loan my second year of college. When I graduated I paid that loan off first since it was part of my parents credit record. I found out when I graduated that my mom had been paying the interest on the loan while I was in college so I would only have to pay back what I borrowed. Since then I have been paying my way. I lived with my parents for a couple years after graduation so I could save a down payment. I made it clear when I asked to stay that it was temporary, I gave them money to cover food and the increase in the utility bills and save the equivilent of rent plus some into savings. It has worked out great as I bought a house last August and when I decided how much to borrow I based it on how much I had been saving already so there wasn’t a huge change in my “life” money. My sister and I never had free rides. When we went on band trips in high school we were expected to pay for them ourselves so I chose to fundraise while my sister chose a summer job. Financial independence does not start at 18 it starts in elementary school.
January 23, 2009 at 1:37 pm
Jewel – that is really sad, and I would feel the same way. The reality is probably more along the lines of, Jewel is responsible and we respect and trust her – her brother on the other hand, needs to be coddled – where did we go right with her and wrong with him? But I can see how it would leave you feeling like the black sheep, and that is a terrible feeling to have. It’s sad to think how money can become an indicator of worth.
January 23, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Gail, sometimes I think you have a video surveillance camera in my kitchen. I recently convinced my fiancee to try your budget plan with me and our only stumbling block was the money he provides to his 16 year old son. I admitted that I consider his son spoiled. For example, he recently received a $2K guitar for Christmas. This kid has not even taken guitar lessons yet. The problem is that he’s not just spoiled by his Dad. J is an only child, an only grandson and an only nephew, so we’re talking group spoiling. The spoiling mainly comes from my fiancee’s parents, who provided J with 15K in an RESP and 2K in a bank account for “whatever” plus most of the cash for the guitar. Please note that my future in-laws live in a crummy rental apartment, drive a 20 year old car, have very little savings and are retired. My step son is their life.
My fiancee argued that my kids are 19 and 22 now and no longer require my financial assistance but his son will still require lots of $ over the next couple of years over and above the family maintenance payments. When I asked him what he foresaw having to pay out for, he could only come up with post secondary education costs and driving lessons. I advised him that my kids had paid for their own driving lessons from part time jobs, had each had access to only $3500 from each of their RESP’s, paid for the rest of their schooling with jobs and his son already has 15K in an RESP!. My argument was that that’s enough education savings and we need to concentrate on paying down our debt. I suggested that his son get a part-time job to pay for driving lessons. J already owns a car that his grandfather paid for and insured.
My kids have admitted to me that they have a hard time sometimes accepting the spoiling of my step son. Luckily, they are old enough to have their own lives and it doesn’t affect them that much. My 22 year old lives on her own and my 19 year old attends school part time and works part time, (also pays room and board) and is not home much. It was nice to see them all building a ginger bread house together at Christmas.
January 23, 2009 at 2:45 pm
Ditto on the “Gail has a camera in our house” comment. My parents were farmers. Years ago, my mom got a house listed at $42K for $18K, complete with triple car garage, single garage, and huge corner lot. The plan WAS for my youngest brother, his girlfriend and their combined children to rent the house (covering the mortgage payments) and eventually own it. Well, I believe that they paid an original thousand dollars to cover insurance, etc. and first month’s rent. The girlfriend is long gone, new one in place, and baby brother has been living there for over five years – virtually rent free!!! Dad passed away years ago, and mom had to refinance farmland that was paid off to consolidate a truck payment and the mortgage into a more manageable payment for her new decrease in old age pension receipts. Every year, mom struggles to make the annual insurance payment, has bailed him out with power bills repeatedly, and of course is still making mortgage payments. The sad part is when any of us try to talk to her, she says “I am keeping track” or “he won’t get anything out of her estate, as he already has his share!” My sister refuses to be co-executor with me unless this is resolved before mom dies, because her estate is not going to be big enough to split five ways what with little bro’s “portion” already in his pocket. I know that when mom does go, the ca ca will hit the fan and our already dysfunctional family will deteriorate to the point of no return. It is impossible to talk to little brother, because he claims that he has made payments. I know mom has cheques from him in her purse that are years old, that he asked her not to cash yet!!!! If I wasn’t a hundred miles away, I would kick his butt, but don’t see any resolution to this problem. Sadly, now, the house is needing all kinds of repairs/renos to maintain any kind of value. Baby brother is in his mid 40’s – mom just turned 73. Again, sadly, we all feel that he is just waiting to ’step in’ and take over the farm when mom passes as he is only 10 miles away, and would seem like the most logical choice. Mom’s theory is that whoever comes up with the money to buy the farm will get it, then split the sale proceeds with the remaining siblings. Most of us are to the point of just walking away, with relations already strained to the limit. I want her to sell the farm before she passes, so she can enjoy some of the proceeds herself. IF there is anything left over after, we can share that, but I can’t convince her to move off the farm yet. I get a headache just contemplating the thunderstorm looming in our future.
January 23, 2009 at 2:48 pm
My dad always said: Feed a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, teach him for a lifetime. That said, when my car broke down RIGHT after I finished University (Seriously, about two weeks after. I was so relieved in that regard!), he bought me a used car as my grad present.
When I found out my car was done, I had sat down and started listing out my options… We lived in the country, so public transport was out. I was considering getting a loan for a used car or moving in with my then fiancee (now husband) who DID live in town so I could use public transportation… And he called and said he and my mom were buying me a used car.
I wasn’t expecting it. I was surprised out my nose! I was very very happy… But I never in my life would have ASKED him to buy me one or finance my car. I never considered that an option! I knew darn well they had their own bills, mortgage, car payments.
I get shocked when I hear people asking their parents for rent money or etc money. It would have to be DIRE for me to even consider that!
January 23, 2009 at 4:07 pm
I guess I was “lucky”, my dad had passed away, my stepmom was in no position to acknowledge me and my estranged mom didn’t have the money to give any handouts as I put myself through college. Even if I had the temptation to ask for a handout, it would not have been an option. The good news is that I found self-reliance was completely acheivable and very NICE!!!!
My sister had different timing and talked my stepdad into cosigning for a business loan, a couple years later she declared bankrupcy (without even warning our stepdad)! It shocked us all! He was stuck with a mid-5 figures bill that hung around his neck for a very long time and delayed retirement for him for years! Through the stress they stopped comunicating entirely, it makes me most sad as he is an excellent Grandpa to my boys and would be to her kids too if they didn’t let money break them.
Now it’s been 10 years+ And in all this time she has never tried to make ammends even though she is doing very well now (at least outward appearances — her consumer debt is much bigger than I would be comfy with).
Money has some strong emotional collateral, nasty nasty business!
(PS: I am watching TDDUP right now! Love it!)
January 23, 2009 at 5:34 pm
Suzanne, I feel great empathy for your situation. In my case, it is an older brother (mid 40’s) who has been bailed out so many times that I do not even ask anymore. I always know when the parents have given him a ‘loan’ because suddenly money comes my way too, with a hundred bucks stuffed in my hand as a ‘thank you’ for coming to visit, plus a tank of gas in the van (they do live a three hour drive away, but I’m not in college anymore! I can afford a trip home to visit). My parents are in the same age bracket (late 60’s, early 70’s) and still actively farming as of last summer. Not sure what they will do this summer. And as for estate planning and retirement money – I have no idea what their plans are, other than that they do not want my brother to be get an equal part once they are gone. What a mess that will be.
As for favorites within the family – I used to feel that way too, that he got more and I was the one who went to college, I was the one who had ‘earned’ debt, etc etc. (plus I was the one who was adopted too, so a double whammy!). Inside I knew that if there was a favorite in the family, it was ME, he just happened to get the money. And now that I am a bit older (mid 30’s) I am so relieved to not be him, in so much debt and dependence and immature thinking and behaviors. It is my parents money to do with whatever they want. I will make my own financial dreams come true.
January 23, 2009 at 5:42 pm
I rode the gravy train when my parents decided to pay for my first year at college. I worked really hard at school, and had good grades, but I should have been working part-time on my own to help for it. When I went back to school the next year, they said they couldn’t afford to send me back, so I did get a job, and took out a loan in my own name. I should have been doing that from the beginning, but it is hard to turn down money that has been offered to you with no strings.
I think hearing that they could afford it, made me realize that my parents weren’t a never-ending source of money (the way you always think they are when you’re a kid), and they have their own sets of problems to worry about. My parents have to work just as hard for their money than I do for mine, so it makes me not want to borrow money from them anymore.
January 23, 2009 at 9:57 pm
My two siblings and I have watched my Dad and his wife pay for my step-brother for years. He had a rent free apartment and all the food he wanted, a car etc etc. Finally at 30, he had to move to get a job in his field. It has been difficult for us. At Christmas we are always “expected” to buy him and his girlfriend gifts while their names are STILL included on my parents gifts to us!! It is soo uncomfortable and my bio-brother REALLY has trouble with it all.
Anyway, the only way that I can live with this “favoritism” is that I know that they would do the same for any of us if we were in trouble. Fortunately we are all gainfully employed with families and homes that we each bought through our own hard work.
January 24, 2009 at 1:39 pm
While going to university I do admit calling my dad for help with books, but if the book was $200 I’d only tell my dad I needed about $50 or so, hoping that I’d either pick up enough shifts at my 3 jobs or he’d send the extra (like the commercial where the Mom emails the daughter money because even though she says she’s fine her Mom knows she’s broke!).
Right now my dad’s g/f’s 40-odd year old son, his mid-30’s wife, and their 9 year old daughter have holed up in my Dad’s house…MY and my siblings childhood house, because they can’t afford to heat their (loosely interpreted, my dad’s girlfriends’) house. It’s pathetic to see such a bunch of loser users freeload off my Dad. My sister is a single mom now and could just as easily claim she needs to pull up stakes and move back home, but she doesn’t. She chops wood, gathers it for her fire, pays the bills on next to nothing, and pays a mortgage. These losers pay nothing, take everything, expect it to be given to them, and it takes everything in me to not ask “Who the hell is this?” whenever I call my Dad to talk to him and one of the freeloaders answers the phone. Thankfully the rest of her kids are out West so there’s no chance of a repeat, but I do think one of these days my disgust is going to get the better of me and I’m going to have to ask when the heck they’re moving out of MY old house and crawling under the rock they belong…
Sorry, this one struck a huge chord with me, but I needed to vent a bit!
January 26, 2009 at 12:31 am
In my family there are some who have not only free loaded or mooched off of parents they also mooched off my grandma. I admit to not moving out of my parents house until I finished school and got married at age 26. My parents didn’t have lots of money and told us if we wanted our drivers liscence we had to pay for it ourselves. The reason I didn’t get it until i was 18 thats when I had the money for it. When I was in school they would drive me back and forth for most holidays and it was anywhere from a 2hour to 5 hour drive depending where i was at school and my parents place. At Christmas my first year of college instead of gifts they gave us who were in school money.
There were only a couple times where I had to ask for money and I was fully expected on my parents and my side to pay it back. I had to swallow my pride and ask for some money to get through the month.
My mom did buy me a computer but I was expected to pay her back for it and a month after I made the final payment it died on me.
I worked during the summer to help pay for school and lived at my parents as my job was only 5 minute drive from their house. But I bought my own food and helped around the house.
I also had to get OSAP and I got the minimum for a couple years because apparently my parents made too much money and could afford to pay my way.
I guess that was a good thing because that minimized my debt after coming out of school.
Even now if something comes up and were short of money, I have a hard time asking for help, basically what we do is ask our land lord if its ok to pay the rent a different date to make sure there is money to cover it.
I really don’t get how some of us in the same family hate asking for handouts and others don’t care who they screw over for money.
My sister for instance had to move in with my parents while my mom was here waiting for me to have my baby. Her boyfriend refuses to get off his butt and work but he likes his toys. My sister now expecting her fourth child second with this lazy boyfriend of hers. Decided to move out when my parents told them they had to share the living expenses.
No respect for our parents at all, our parents are made out to be the bad guys.
My sister has taken advantage of me in the past as well, not paying me for babysitting her kids, asking for a small loan and when she wrote me a check she had no money in the bank to cover it where I then was hit with the NSF fee not to mention out the money I lent her. Needless to say I was not happy and never lent her money again since that day.
To be honest, I hate money, I hate the reliance we have on money and what it does to people. Greed, Envy, theft and more. Also what people subject themselves to for money.
All this doesn’t change the fact we need money to live on, I guess its just up to us on how we let money affect our lives.
January 26, 2009 at 12:37 am
oh yeh and now my grandma isn’t around for them to mooch off of anymore. She passed away Jan 1st, being on the other side of the country the unexpected cost of flying home for the funeral and last minute cut back in what we had planned on paying on debt.
My Grandma was an awesome lady with a very big heart, the one time i had to borrow money from her was horrible, but I promised to pay her back and that I did as soon as I had the money to do it.
March 1, 2009 at 10:58 am
Wow… I know this comment is over a month from its original time but I just had to comment. (kind of a self therapy thing)
I find it so hard to not think about people who are abusing their parents like some are. Both my sisters have done this to my mom and the one (now 27) is still doing it. She is not going to school and expects our mom to pay for everything including her smokes. My mom recently had a heart attack and I don’t doubt that stress was a part of the factor. We are all hoping that my one sister will eventually get a job here to relieve some of the stress. My mom is on disablility at the moment and just can not say no.
The other sister had a bitter sweet wake up call when she found out she was pregnant. She was living with my mom at the time and applied for low income housing right away. She enlisted on many baby sites and things and the rest of the family shopped at garage sales and such to help get her ready for when the little one arrived. My sister did her part also making sure that everycent she received went somewhere towards the baby needs and to help out with living costs at our mom’s. I am happy to report that she is in low income housing now and is looking at and preparing for her and her daughter’s future including a trust fund she set up and going to set up a RESP. Now this girl does not have much money but she is really thinking ahead now. A big difference to when she used to mooch off of mom as she finally grew up – I laughed when she told me me how much she feels she has and told her I was proud of her. I supply her with coupons whenever I see them to help out and have shown her ways to save in other areas.
Now myself. I learned the hard way about growing up fast as I was forced to move out in grade 11. My mom chose my alcoholic step-dad over me and she thought I would be safer. I worked, went to school and thankfully I had cheap place to live at the time and family would send some care packages of food. I ended up moving back home for grade 12 when my step father left. I still worked and went to school covering my own costs of living (not all but a good chunk of it.
After I graduated, I have only moved home once when I was in a serious car accident that left me completely dependent on everyone else to take care of me. I was 19 years old and a good chunk of my money that came in for me went to my mom to help her out.
Throughout the years, while I was still in university (covered by student loans and working) I lived briefly with the odd family member (falling out with roommates and such) always making sure that I paid them to live there.
I now have one child of my own and want to make sure that he learns that there is never a free ride in life and we have to what we can even if it is not enough. I don’t want him to go through the fast track of growing up like I did to learn the hard way, but reading this sight is opening my eyes more in how I can teach him. Right now is the perfect time as I attempted to go back to university the last couple of years when my husband and I thought we could do it and have realized last summer that it was a huge financial mistake for us as the timing was not right and we were not prepared. I attemted to work for the beginning but had to quit my job because I could not handle everything anymore like I used to. I have since got my job back last fall and we are working on trying to get out of debt, have savings, emergency fund, and prepare for my son’s and our future. I have always wanted to start up a RESP for my son but was unsure of what they really were until now and the different ones. I am applying for his SI number and starting one here right away. I am slowly getting back to the frugal, smart spending and saving person I used to be, before debt consumption, and want to teach my son these skills.
As for my one sister that is living off my mom, we have all tried to talk to her with no luck. I don’t wish for anyone to be put out on the street, but in some circumstances, especially when it is killing someone else, I wish I could send them out there to grow up a bit.
Thanks everyone for letting me share and thank you to Gail for explaining things so clearly so that I understand them better. You have opened up my eyes again about the financial side of life.