When Talking is Tough
Posted by Gail | Filed under Money & Family, talking about money
It’s hard for some people to talk about money, even with their mates. Or maybe particularly with their mates. It seems that while we’re prepared to swap bodily fluids, we’re not prepared to ‘fess up about our shopping addictions or just how unsafe the other guy is making us feel. I of the “open-book” genre don’t really get it. But I know that there are some people who are intensely private for whom the money chat feels like torture.
And so no one talks, no one listens, no one knows what’s what. And then the fighting begins. Maybe because she forgot that favorite shirt needed to be hung, not dryer’d or because he promised to cut the lawn LAST weekend and it looks like it’s ready for elephants and giraffes just about now. Really, it’s the fact that when she went to pay the hydro bill, the lunch he’d just bought at the sub shop left her without enough to pay the bill in full, even though she’d planned to get caught up THIS month.
If you and your mate are like chalk and cheese when it comes to money, ignoring your differences won’t make the problems you’re having go away. Nor will attacking your partner every time (s)he does something that pushes your buttons. Whether he’s spending money you think he shouldn’t be, or she’s racked up yet another credit card without you knowing about it and is now begging for forgiveness and help, you’ve got to deal with the issue. It’s not just going to go away.
At the top of the list when it comes to talking about money is honesty. If you’re hiding your spending or feel like you have to hide your savings, doesn’t that just feel wrong to you? I mean, this is the person you’re planning to spend the rest of your life with, and you’re hiding stuff? Are you planning to keep up the deception for-frickin’ ever? And what does that say about your relationship?
If you can’t be honest about your debt, your spending, your goals, and what makes you feel safe and unsafe, why the dickens are you in this relationship? And if your partner throws, “I don’t want to talk about it” at you, stand your ground. You’re going to talk about it because this is a make-it-or-break-it issue. So you’ll get on the same page or you’ll have a crappy life. You get to choose.
While you’re being honest, realize that being upfront comes with taking responsibility. It’s not enough to ‘fess up. You also have to say what you’re going to do to fix the problem, by when, and how. If it’s your partner who needs to take this step and is reluctant, then you need to make sure she understands that while you love her, you’re not letting her irresponsibility wreck your life. And while you know he’s making more than you, if he’s also racking up debt at a wicked clip, all that earning isn’t doing your family one bit of good. It isn’t just about what you make, it’s also about how you manage what you make.
The more you can work together to solve whatever problems you may now be facing, the stronger you will grow as a team. Let the problems divide you and you’re done for. Refuse to take responsibility for your part of the mess, and you’re done for. You might as well just divvy up the dishes and go your separate ways.
Once you start talking about money and making a plan to work together, the past has to stay in the past. It’s kinda like Las Vegas: What happened there stays there. If you constantly drag up your partner’s crappy history and wave it around, you shouldn’t be surprised when they just go back to their bad behaviour. If they have to take crap from you, they might as well be enjoying the spoils as an offset to the punishment.
As you talk about the money, the issues and the steps you’ll take to make things better, you may not be in your most huggy mood. But you must, at the very least, be polite. Don’t call your partner names or do anything to make her defensive. Don’t yell. Stay on topic: what are we going to do to make this better. And when it feels like the frustration or bitterness is too much, take a break.
Recognize that you have emotional limits and call a time-out so you have some time to breath and re-stabilize yourself emotionally. Ditto your mate; if you see your buddy turning red, suggest you call it a day and pick a time to start again when tempers have cooled and everyone is feeling a little mellower. (Don’t drink while you’re having this conversation, no matter how much you may think it’ll calm you down. Don’t.)
Be realistic about what you can achieve in your first few talks. You may not be ready to make a plan right from the get go. You may have to spend a couple of chat sessions just talking about how you’re feeling, what frustrates you, what makes you angry and what you wish your life looked like. Once you’ve both aired out your feelings and talked about what’s really important to you, you’ll know where you stand so you can see if you stand together.
Relationships take work. Both people have to be committed. And both people have to be willing to pull together and do whatever it takes to keep the union financially stable. As a team, you’re unbeatable.
———–
Our friend, Maureen, is gravely ill. If you’ve been around for a while you know Maureen. Funny as all get out. Sensible. A chatter-box. Maureen went to battle with cancer again. After her chemo and stem-cell treatment, she picked up a really bad infection. Mark, her hubster, has been keeping me in the loop and I’m sending out a call for positive thoughts. Maureen and I have never met, but because she is so open, so loving, I feel like I’ve known her forever. She’s a strong, brave woman who now needs a lot of positive energy, and you’re just the folks to do it. For the next few days, please think of Maureen. Each time you take a sip of water, each time you check to see what time it is, think of Maureen and send her your strongest good wishes. Can you love someone you’ve never met? Maureen makes me think so.
September 1, 2010 at 6:28 am
Sorry to hear about Maureen, we will keep her in our thoughts.
I never thought I’d see Las Vegas mentioned in a finance article other then to say Stay away from that place. Getting to a common ground was the most important thing my wife and I did before we got married. Sure, finances were still separate at that time, but knowing exactly how we had each managed money and making a plan to manage it together has resulted in a huge reduction in the number of times we have fought about money.
Happiness is all about being on the same page.
regards,
Jason
September 1, 2010 at 7:12 am
Big hug out to Maureen. I miss her messages. Will definitely keep her in my thoughts and prayers.
I grew up in the space where you didn’t ask about money, weren’t taught how to deal with money (albeit save it, budget, etc) and spent years floundering around treating cc s like they were lottery winnings. We are reformed and it’s a constant learning session. We talk about it how we are planning to spend it, how much we have saved and where we are in the retirement plan, etc. It’s becoming more comfortable to discuss and I have stopped hiding. Feels so much better but sure was scary at first.
I am going to Las Vegas for a holiday in three weeks! With my Mom. It’s paid for so Woo Hoo!
Thanks everyone for helping me to learn. Have a great day!
D.
September 1, 2010 at 7:58 am
Was just taking a sip when I read the message about Maureen and sent a big hug and positive thoughts from the bottom of my heart… I’ve never met you either.. But you are loved. Remember that.. xoxo
Dear Gail,
I’m a long time lurker first time messager. Love your posts.. I google all your old posts, have read your books, cover to cover.. You saved my life. 3 years ago.. After the big break up when my ex left me with over 40K in debt, I cried the first year in bed feeling lost. I am 35 now and my parents lives far far away in Europe..
A year later of suffering watched your show and here.. After 2 years and many sleepless nights working like a crazy monkey days later.. Almost debt free and saving for my downpayment with a great attitude.. I’m keeping a blog as well. But too chicken to make it public since… like you said in post it is hard to confess. And I couldn’t even date anyone because I felt like a looser. I attracted wrong people with bad energy.. And stopped dating altogether later. No point.. All my close friends knows it though as well as my parents. Without your encouragement and their support/company it wouldn’t have happened. But revealing what I’ve been through.. just the thought of it makes me sad.. I’ll never be covering someone else’s boo boo’s again. My word of the era is “responsibility”. Now I am ready to take my life back..
At the end of this month! When I am debt free.. hopefully forever!
PS: I dig your RRSP : “Retire Rich Sooner Plan” approach in your book.
Love you Gail.. Love you to pieces.
And hang in there Maureen! Fight it my dear. Life is beautiful.
Thank you!
September 1, 2010 at 8:33 am
First off – Maureen – you are in my thoughts and prayers and I’m thinking positive humourous thoughts for you since every time you posted you always made me smile. BIG HUGS to you! And yes, Gail, even though you have never met the person, you can love them, as I have met a few people online and feel much love for them.
As for the talking to your spouse part, this was what broke down my first marriage – communication for all things. Money was the least of our problems, but it added to it for sure. Talking was hard, and finally, things just blew up. Hindsight is wonderful and looking back, I have no idea why I stayed as long as I did, or for that matter, said “I do”. But now, in my current marriage – and the forever one – our communication is wonderful. Yes, there are tough times, and we argue, but we always talk about the problem eventually and get it out in the open. We just had a family meeting yesterday with our two daughters because there has been tension with all of us. Very emotional, but we all discussed issues, and today, we all feel better for it. Good luck to all those out there that need to do that talk. You can do it.
September 1, 2010 at 8:52 am
Good thoughts and strong prayers out to Maureen….
I am constantly telling folks to have this discussion with their partner…I have a spouse that’s not really interested in the money but neither one of us is “secretly” drowning the other one, their is no stress on the money side for us…and it’s all an open book for both of us..so we both know what’s going on…that’s the main thing…that you both KNOW what’s going on….and both agree to the management of it…
September 1, 2010 at 9:25 am
Good thoughts and hugs to Maureen. I really like your posts and you are missed.
Gail, thank you so much for these posts. This was an area that my husband and I did not really address until just a few months ago and we now have a solid plan to clear off the debt. We may not always agree on money but at least we now talk about iy openly.
September 1, 2010 at 10:04 am
Positive thoughts of strength being sent to Maureen as I write, sip, breathe today.
I love the last line of this blog post, “As a team, you’re unbeatable”. It’s my 9th wedding anniversary today, so that one is hitting me emotionally (in a good way). We’ve been through good times and rough times, but we’ve learned and grown together, and I really believe this line. I’m a lucky woman to have a great partner to figure all this stuff out with.
September 1, 2010 at 10:25 am
Good thoughts and hugs to Maureen – we miss you and your great posts.
Jessica – congratulations! Taking control of your financial life will yield benefits in other areas of your life too. You will find it easier to take control of so many other things in your life you feel you can’t control. You are gaining confidence every day and a confident, self-sufficient, in control woman attracts a different type of man – one that respects you and your abilities.
September 1, 2010 at 11:12 am
Lots of thoughts and wishes of strength to Maureen.
I haven’t posted much in the last couple months but still do read daily. I do feel strongly about todays blog. 4 years ago my ex-fiance and I broke up and communication and our different ways of handling money caused so much stress and unhappiness in our relationship that lead to its demise.
I got married in June to a wonderful person who is very much like me in regards to money. Man, does it make things easier! We are always on the same page and when were not we talk it over until the issue is resolved.
September 1, 2010 at 12:04 pm
To Maureen and her family,
My best wishes and thoughts are with you. I pray that you will be restored in time and that your family will gather together and find the strength and comfort they need to pull through this trying time.
September 1, 2010 at 12:15 pm
all the very best, Maureen – can’t wait to hear your excellent thoughts on this blog again soon!
as for the post itself, although outsiders may (and have) wondered about the debates that my partner and i go though, i think it’s a good sign that we are not afraid to tackle difficult topics: we’re aggressive about making sure we’re on the same page about our lives together, and when we disagree, we work through it, even when it’s painful. I think my partner would be more private if i was very private, but he’s responded well to my openness about money – i have no problem (and want him) to know what i earn, how much debt i have, and what my savings are (and vice versa). this has meant that he’s more comfortable with my having student debt, and i didn’t panic when he lost his job.
There are a lot of topics beyond money that hurt me to talk about (going back to school? having kids? who’s earning what?) so I understand and sympathize with how hard those converasations can be. but that pain of not talking about it is isolating, and isolation in a relationship creates a distance that’s hard to bridge again. so i’m right with you, Gail. Take a deep, fortifying breath… and do what you gotta.
September 1, 2010 at 12:26 pm
My husband and I actually got to sit down this week and talk about money. We had been falling into old patterns of silence that got us into financial troubles before we separated (reconciled this past spring)
We were happily surprised to find out what our combined take home pay was. So did some dream-sharing and goal-planning first to determine our motivation to continue with the more difficult parts of the discussion and budgetting. We are now on a cash “jar” system! And it felt really good this week to bring home cash and stash it into areas like gas, xmas, downpayment savings, etc. Ran into our first “bump” – 2 sick days cut into one of the paycheques and I was able to teach DH how our dreams and goals don’t immediately get ignored or chucked out the window because you’re “short” this month!
There is security and acheivement that comes from $10 in the bank, but knowing that your cupboards and gas tank are full, all your bills are paid up, and there’s even enough in the Play fund to go to the movies this week!
Our not-so-silent future is looking a lot brighter! So far, so good…
September 1, 2010 at 12:46 pm
Best wishes to Maureen. Chin up and be strong.
Communication is key for any relationship. My wife and I have daily about our finances. We have started to include our child in on our discussion. To help educate them about budgets and debt. It’s never to early.
September 1, 2010 at 12:52 pm
My middle name is Maureen – so from Maureen to Maureen, many healing prayers for your complete recovery.
September 1, 2010 at 12:58 pm
I’m sending some good Karma your way Maureen. Stay strong.
DH and I had the money talk before we got married last year. We both go through periods of frustration so it helps that one of us is always trying to keep the dialogue going. I have noticed that he like to talk about “DEBT” more and I like to talk about “SAVINGS” more. But we are making progress towards our financial goals, and I guess that is all that matters at the end of the day.
September 1, 2010 at 1:18 pm
Gail, I also feel like Maureen is that neighbor friend next door, and I would love to meet her in person. If not, this forum will have to do, and my positive thoughts are going out to her in waves. It is definitely possible to love someone you have never met. Her sense of humor and the journey her and her hubby have taken to get to debt free, and ahead of the game, will serve her well in this little bump on her path. Kick cancer’s ass Maureen, you can do it!!
September 1, 2010 at 1:24 pm
Love to Maureen xoxoxo
September 1, 2010 at 1:28 pm
All the best sent to Maureen and family.
Jessica: congratulations. It takes work but it is worth it.
September 1, 2010 at 1:38 pm
I’m adding my thoughts and prayers to all those going out to Maureen and her family. Keep on keeping on.
September 1, 2010 at 2:10 pm
@ Maureen: I wish you peace and good health very soon as you go through your battle. I hope to read you in here very soon.
As for the sharing and talking, sometimes it’s easy to get off track when you fall into old habits, and some days I wonder why it has to be such a struggle sometimes. But in the end, we’re on the right track and still learning more every single day. Thanks Gail and everyone here for at least getting me back above ground again!
September 1, 2010 at 2:21 pm
Before my husband and I married (three years ago) we created a budget for our fixed and variable household expenses and took a percentage of our net pay and contributed to our joint account. We both have a separate account – “fun money” to spend how we want. We agreed to one rule – we would never buy anything that we did not have the money in the bank for (except our mortgage). We talked about our goals – (mortgage free in 5 years-2012); putting in our maximum TFSA and RRSP amounts and building an emergency fund.
One of the things we agreed on was to take a holiday every year because life is too short to wait until we are retired. We have lost a couple of friends at a young age and my thoughts and prayers go out to Maureen.
We don’t talk about money all the time, by setting goals and having the one rule of never having consumer debt we don’t have to have a daily conversation about money. It hasn’t always been easy, we have a car that is over 10 years old, we don’t have all the gadgets and toys many of our friends have – but we have enough and we have our health and wonderful friends and family something that is hard to put a price tag on.
September 1, 2010 at 3:28 pm
Talking about money is so tough. I don’t think I’m part of the minority when I say that I grew up in a family where it was almost one of the rules of Fight Club. You do NOT TALK ABOUT MONEY.
My parents as a whole have gotten better at this over the years, but it’s still a struggle, and I can tell just how displeased my mom is sometimes when I start asking questions.
Oh well. Despite this (or perhaps, in a roundabout way, because of it) I grew up to be pretty focused on my money…when it’s coming…where it’s going, and how much it’s doing for me in between. Not talking about it may have had the side effect of “well, this is what you have…what are you going to do about it?”, and it’s been my focus for awhile now to see how far I can make my not-awesome income stretch.
My brother and I talk about money…or lack of it…all the time now. We both have goals, and realize that we need a certain amount squirrled away in order to get what we want.
The Boyfriend, however, doesn’t seem to have any idea about how money works, and it’s always a struggle to get him to talk about it. It’s as though his parents didn’t teach him about money at all…just kept it coming…and now that that’s stopped, he’s outta luck.
It’s a constant battle between me saying I’m broke (which is what I say when I’m outta the cash I’ve set aside to spend, as opposed to my savings) and The Boyfriend saying “no you’re not…you have THIS MUCH…that’s not broke! I’m broke!”
I’m only starting to get through to him that if I didn’t watch my money like a hawk, I would have nothing to show for it, and I just don’t want to live that way.
September 1, 2010 at 3:36 pm
BIG hugs to Maureen and her family, and positive thoughts are going their way for a speedy recovery… Stay strong.
We got our hydro bill in the mail today, along with my credit card statement — feeling like I have to justify both to my DH, even though he knew of every purchase on it and knows that it’s coming due… The hydro bill is simply outrageous… I rarely use a dryer, we only have a window air conditioner and ceiling fans, we aren’t home on weekends… I mean, what else can we do? It’s our highest bill since spring, when we didn’t know we had a problem with our well pump, and it was running constantly. We just replaced the washer (and dryer too, not that that matters much). Granted, our fridge is getting old, and is probably an energy guzzler, but this bill is a fair bit higher than others…
We never keep secrets with each other, but we each seem to feel guilty with spending and get defensive without someone even ‘blaming’ the other…
September 1, 2010 at 4:18 pm
Maureen has been on my mind off and on the past few weeks…I’ve wondered how she was doing. Gail, please tell Mark to stand again on that railing – with one foot up in the tree – holding the antenna – so that Maureen can connect on her computer here.
All joking aside, you are dearly missed here Maureen. I really love your sense of fun and humour, am encouraged by your stories of getting out of debt – it has spurred me on, and I applaud your strength and courage as you navigate through this very difficult time in your life. I will continue to think of you and send cyberhugs and good vibes your way. Hang in there!
Thank you Gail for keeping us in the loop.
@Jessica – welcome. You sound like you are coming down the hill heading towards the beautiful world that awaits. Congratulations on a job well done – you’ll be debt free in a month! Imagine the freedom!
DH and I discuss finances. I’m the ‘accountant’ in the family. We talk about it, and we’re both pretty easy going about what needs to be done….btw…..3 months from today and we’ll be debt free too! Still seems so far….
September 1, 2010 at 5:07 pm
Hugs and prayers for Maureen…I too am a seldom/occaisonal poster but read almost daily. Looking forward to the day when Maureen returns…all the best wishes in the world for a full recovery, and soon!
September 1, 2010 at 7:25 pm
oh Maureen! healthy thoughts and wishes coming your way from the west coast!
About the money talk…. what if the talking is all the time in the form of score-keeping? I have mentioned my sis before, the tit-for-tat spending, the “deals” that they make with each other to justify purchases, the entitlement in all it’s forms, the way Mr thinks his spending is “better” than the Mrs’s spending… it’s a big ole mess, and it really came to a head this week.
They are both unhappy and stressed about the money, how it’s managed, how it’s spent, who is more important, etc… they both blame each other for the overload, the are pointing fingers and making themselves miserable! Unfortunately there are 2 beautiful young children in the fray, if it comes to a break-up over money, the kids get front row seats.
They talk AT each other about the money not as a team, but as opposing forces! That has to be as toxic as being silent about it. I hope they can sort it out, but it feels too little, too late these days.
September 1, 2010 at 8:47 pm
Off Topic….
( And, too bad the one Mom hadn’t saved up for what she was about to spend. KA…ching.
We watch Toronto Global News every night at six.
Imagine my delight when there was Gail, as beautiful as ever! It was an item about back to school shopping and spending. Too bad the newscaster didn’t say your name correctly
@*pol….I’m keeping my fingers crossed your sis and DH come to their senses for the
sake of their children.
September 1, 2010 at 10:09 pm
Maureen and Mark, my prayers are heading up right now, and I will hold Maureen up in prayer daily as she battles this cancer. Maureen I miss your messages and look forward to reading lots more! Big healing hugs!
Thanks Gail, for sharing Maureen’s battle here with us.
September 1, 2010 at 10:16 pm
Maureen – Sending you and your family positive thoughts and wishes for a speedy recovery… don’t ever give up!
My husband was not really one to bring up finances, but he did on the way to work today… nothing big, just a couple of things he wanted to mention about what we need to do prior to our trip next month and how we should allocate our variable spending budget over the next 6 weeks (cut backs here and there to increase the spending money we’ve already saved). He had some great suggestions, and when we were done talking, I thanked him for bringing up the subject. We were never a couple that really argued about money, but having the consolidation loan paid off has really opened his eyes that we can save, talk about finances, have a financial goal and a realistic way of getting there.
Another way he found for us to save money… cancelled our gym membership… like Gail says “if you don’t use it, get rid of it”. We hadn’t gone in about 2 months (we were faithful gym-rats up until early July), and when he found out that our condo had updated the equipment in the gym 6 floors below us (which we pay for in our condo fees), we cancelled the membership, saving us $70/month.. might not seem like much, but that’s a saving of $840/yr.
September 1, 2010 at 11:06 pm
maureen, i sit here bawling my eyes out, thinking that one of my best friends is fighting the big CA. you and your beloved mark are in my prayers. do i love you? of course – when i started posting you were the one who answered my silly question with an equally silly response, not laughing at me but with me & making me feel oh so welcome. like a fine cup of coffee in the early morning, i just knew you’d be someone i would love. now i look at you as i do at my daughter, diagnosed at 17 with a cancer only 1 out of every 50 women survive. in remission at 22; at 28 a practicing child forensic psychologist. i hold you warmly in my thoughts…know your hand is being held by one who loves you for the light you shine on this world, and for the open welcome arms you extend.
September 1, 2010 at 11:12 pm
as far as talking money…i don’t believe it’s possible to have an honest relationship without being able to converse openly about money. as many emotions as the topic may stir, i agree completely: no accusing. no tit for tat. no past history and errors dragged up. just flat out sincere conversation. if i can’t talk to my boyfriend about money, financial goals, and dreams then why do we expect to make this relationship last? there’s only one way as far as i’m concerned, and that’s talking.
my parents were of 2 different beliefs; my father who still buys everything with cash. my mother, who paid her huge credit card bill in full, every month. they had a solid relationship and i believe, to this day, that part of it was due to their ability to talk about anything without accusing one another of chicanery. even when money was tight, they found a way to make ends meet. my dad would work weekends to see us through. my mom would take on extra projects at school. whatever it took. a shining example for me to have learned!
September 2, 2010 at 6:04 am
Maureen and Mark, I wish I knew what words to share. My heart is aching this morning. I really feel so sad that you are dealing with this. Please stay strong. Stay positive and know that your on-line friends love you and are sending you healing energy & love. xox.
As for money – don’t let it eat away at you. Talk about it. Share. Be realistic.
Life is too short. Get your financial ducks in a row and talk to each one of them.
Today my dear son starts his 1st day of school. I’m so excited for him, yet bad news and a possible hurricane are affecting it. A young lady who is a close friend of my cousin died in a car accident on the 30th, now I find out my BFF’s dad commited suicide yesterday… crappy crappy crappy…
September 2, 2010 at 8:01 pm
Positive thoughts and energy to Maureen!
Long time fan, first time poster here.
My wife and I have been married for several years and even though we still have separate accounts we try to make it a point to very open about money and spending. We have always been on the same page financially and have never been shy about having those dreaded “money talks” when needed. Our openess about money played a vital role in getting ourselves out of debt.
September 3, 2010 at 7:32 am
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September 3, 2010 at 11:46 am
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September 3, 2010 at 1:24 pm
Maureen and Mark, just wanted to let you know that you have vibes and energy coming out from BC. I’ve been reading this blog for over a year, have thought about posting many times, just never did. I’ve always enjoyed your posts Maureen, you have such a wonderful sense of humour.
Gail et al, this blog has helped me tremendously in getting rid of a bunch of debt and to actually have money in savings. I come here every day and just soak up all the great advice and information that is available. This site is such a huge service for people. Thank you all so much.
September 3, 2010 at 5:55 pm
Maureen I’m sending positive thoughts your way, with your will & determination I know that you can beat this. Like many others have said reading your posts always put a smile on my face & made me laugh,sending prays to you & your husband Mark. Xoxo
September 4, 2010 at 5:29 am
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September 6, 2010 at 12:43 am
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January 25, 2011 at 11:10 am
Every one admits that our life is expensive, but people need money for various stuff and not every one earns enough money. Hence to get fast mortgage loans or short term loan would be good solution.