Couple Income
Posted by Gail | Filed under Money & Family, Relationships
One of the things I found so interesting when I work with couples is the challenge some face because she makes more than he does. Really. Over and over I’ve seen women feel like their partners are somehow deficit because they make less, and men feel positively castrated by their lower incomes. Hard to believe we’re in the 21st century.
MSNBC has reported that the recession has pushed more women into the role of major breadwinner. Girls, aren’t you glad you didn’t pay any attention to the “find a man who can look after you” advice your Aunt Maud dispensed? You’d be up the creek now, wouldn’t you?
It seems that based on the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, in 2007 almost 30% of women are earning more than their male partners. And since 75% of the 7 million Americans who have lost jobs are men, that female bulge has no doubt ballooned.
One of the biggest problems women face as primary breadwinners is the weight of having to carry the financial burden and do everything at home too. Already feeling like losers, many men refuse to take on the household duties of caring for kids, washing clothes and cooking meals, leaving women doing everything and frazzled in the process. Yes, apparently, there are still “male” and “female” jobs in many homes. And if mommy doesn’t do it, it won’t get done.
Studies have shown that while men with working wives are taking on more housework, they lag behind by five hours a week. And in families with kids the gap is even wider: women spending 17 hours more each week doing household and childcare chores.
Equally difficult is the sense of failure men feel because they’re not “taking care of their families.” These emotions run deep, and the conflicts that can arise as the power-base in the family shifts can wreak havoc on everyone involved. Studies have shown that as a woman’s income surpasses her male partner’s, he tends to be less involved at home and that more traditional roles reassert themselves.
Clearly being a pioneer – being the first couple to change roles in your family or in a traditional culture – means breaking new ground. Few of us were raised in families where Mom brought home the bacon and Dad fried it up in the pan. So it’s going to take a little time to come to terms with the shift in perspective needed to cope with our changing roles. First, we will have to get used to the fact that the person who make more money should NOT have more say… that’s not a partnership. Second, we’ll have to stop tying our self-worth to our paycheques.
Is this finally the opportunity for us to embrace the idea that we are actually in it together? It doesn’t matter who does the laundry, it only matters that the laundry gets done. By focusing on keeping everyone sane and healthy, it’ll be about figuring out what needs to be done to keep the household running and the children safe and happy.
Of course, this will only work if we keep money out of chore talk. It doesn’t matter if one partner is making $32,000 a year and the other is making $1320,000. If you’re both putting in 40+ hours a week, household chores should be split evenly.
Don’t assume that the distribution of household chores, money, and decision-making power will just work itself out. You’ve got to talk about it. And talk about it. And talk about it. Recognize that you’re both dealing with old role models and out-dated expectations about what it means to be a real man or a real woman. If you let a discussion about who must stay home with a sick child disintergrate into who has the “less important” job or who is the better parent because (s)he cares more, you won’t ever get over your societal programming.
Good relationships are hard to find so don’t let the issues around who makes more and who does what around the house wreck your life. If you need an objective outsider to help you sort through your feelings and attitudes, get some counseling. This is tough stuff we’re dealing with. Sometimes a thoughtful and sane voice can make all the difference in the world.
May 12, 2010 at 6:46 am
We tend to still be one of those traditional households. I bring home the bacon and my wife takes care of the home. One of the tasks we do together is cooking. I enjoy helping out in the kitchen to prepare a meal. I’d be prefectly fine with taking up all the household chores if our lives were reversed. If she brought home the bacon and I stayed home well then I’d expect to pull my weight by doing the household chores.
If my wife ever went out and got a job and was bringing home a paycheque then I’d definiate help out around the house more. I’m not saying that just because my wife doesn’t work she has to do all the household chores, it just happens that because she is home all day, she decides on her own to get them done. I still help out with outdoor chores like turning the soil in our garden, and when we have a house, I’d like to be the one to cut the grass, since that is a job I enjoy.
regards,
Jason
May 12, 2010 at 7:16 am
We are lucky that hubby and I make almost identical pay since we do the same job… but I end up doing the lion’s share of the work around the house. Some things we learn as a child are hard to shake.
May 12, 2010 at 7:39 am
I was raised by my Mom & Step-Dad in an unconventional family by 1970’s and 1980’s standards. Mom worked 40+ hours per week, and Dad did the cooking, cleaning, laundry and most of the child rearing. It never seemed weird to me until I began life as an adult. Suddenly I was expected to look after a home and children, with not really any idea how. It was hard to wrap my head around the fact that I had learned differently than others. Now as the major breadwinner in our home (and on my second marriage), we distribute chores more evenly and childrearing is a 50/50 spilt.
May 12, 2010 at 7:42 am
Jason there’s nothing wrong with the arrangements you and your wife have if that’s what works for you.
Like Colleen, I work full time and still do the majority of chores around the house. My husband is in college, presently attending 1/2 days. He prepares supper each day, runs the dishwasher & empties it, and “straightens up” the house. I still do all the real cleaning and laundry. We tend to split up the chores traditionally. He looks after outside, I look after inside.
I think most of the time he just doesn’t think to do things. Also, our opinions on cleaning are different from each other. I am more throughout. I’m learning to ask for help. I’ll ask him to vacuum etc. That way I’m not resenting that he isn’t doing it. For some reason he can’t read my mind??
I’m sure it was difficult for my husband at first for me to become the primary breadwinner. It’s a pressure on me I didn’t expect also, but we are doing okay.
In one way, since hubbie was laid-off work, we have learned to consider our money one pot. Before, we handled money a bit differently. We still pay certain bills from each other’s accounts, but we don’t look at it as his verses hers anymore. We kept it seperate just because we had each looked after ourselves for so long, that it felt weird to pool the money.
May 12, 2010 at 7:59 am
For a while I was the breadwinner in the family, and although I’m now making a career transition and am not making a full time wage, I expect to be the primary earner in the future. We always kept our money separate and communicated about how much we had and how it was spent. And we share in household chores. It seemed an easy transition for me because I grew up in a house where my parents split up the chores and child rearing duties. Mom cooked, Dad cleaned up after dinner.
We don’t have kids yet, and I expect that to make the division of labour much more complicated.
May 12, 2010 at 8:01 am
My marriage had a lot of problems but when my husband gave up his job of 20 years it was the final straw. At first it was OK, he helped around the house and did some of the child rearing, but eventually he did less and less and I had to do more and more, plus carry the family financially.
His self esteem went in the sewer (I’m sure I didn’t help, because I was very frustrated. It was like having a third child!!). It ended very badly, I realize the part my attitude played in it all, but the other problems (addictions that he refused to address) were unsolvable in the marriage.
Even as a person who makes a very good living and works in a typically male proferssion, it IS sometimes hard not to still have the old stereotype that the man should be the financial supporter. It doesn’t seem to matter how progressive we become as a society, it seems that women still do the lion’s share of work in the home (I’m not saying that this is always the case). Now women are burning themselves out trying to be the professional breadwinners AND the ultimate housewife/ caregiver, it is all very exhausting.
May 12, 2010 at 8:27 am
I have made more than my husband for more than a decade. In fact, I am now making more than double his income. And yes, for a while it was a power struggle between us, because we were both raised very traditionally, and he is much older than I am, so the roles were very firmly entrenched. Surprisingly it got better for him after we had our child and he lost his job, as he got to spend a lot of time with her (although I have to say he still put her in daycare to have “downtime”, which I resented having to pay for!!) He got to see the benefits of not having the pressure to keep a job he hated because I could support us (and conversely, I got to see and feel the pressure I had unconsciously put on him to play that role – it’s horrid and I hate having to feel like I’m trapped now because I can’t give up a job I hate because I have to support the family!)
I still do the majority of the work at home, although he cooks. I think it’s because my standards of cleanliness are higher than his. And to a certain degree, he just doesn’t see the jobs to be done – he and my teeneager are very similar! They’ll do something if asked, but the initiative to look for something to do just isn’t there.
I have to say that being a stay-at-home mom would be so restful compared to my life now – I really envy women that can do that, and I guess that perpetuates the stereotypes. I can’t win!
May 12, 2010 at 8:34 am
I also think it’s important how we teach children about these sorts of things. When I was growing up my brother and I shared in the housework equally. We both mowed the lawn, both shovelled the driveway, both did dishes, etc. My last boyfriend on the other hand, had never once washed a dish or made a bed in his life (his mom and sisters did those things). Needless to say, this made moving in together very difficult.
It is hard to feel like an equal partner when responsibilities aren’t shared evenly. It takes a lot of work to run a household, and kids (and adults) need to know that.
May 12, 2010 at 8:35 am
All it took one day years ago was an innocuous comment of “When are you going to vaccuum anyways? The floors are a mess!”, and boom, my husband’s chore since that day has been to vaccuum. Needless to say, he doesn’t ask when laundry will be done or when the bathrooms are getting cleaned! The lion’s share of child-rearing is done by me for sure, but isn’t that part of the mother/martyr role? (kidding…sorta!) What drives me nuts are some friends who choose to stay at home while their partners work to keep house and home together, yet they complain about not having enough money to (fill-in-blank-here). Then get a job! Do something! Why are you relying on one person in this partnership to work umpteen hrs so YOU get to stay home and complain that you got stuck having to do housework?? Argh! To me, that is their chosen job…to keep the house in order.
I make more than my husband, so the household bills are sorted by income percentage, and we maintain completely separate accounts. If he wants to spend $100 on a new gidgetydo, if he’s got the cash for it, I don’t care, and vice versa. It would really get ugly if he ever asked me if I thought I had the money to spend on my new whatchamacallit, so this arrangement has worked beautifully for almost 17 years.
My daughter has been told that as long as she has an education that will support her, I don’t care what she does when she meets someone to share her life with. As long as she doesn’t rely on him to be her sole source of income because she didn’t want to put in the effort to get an education in the event he dies/splits/whatever, then I’m okay with that.
May 12, 2010 at 9:04 am
I am not married or living with anyone, so I have to do everything myself anyway, and I work two jobs! A lot doesn’t get done and I have really prioritize. However, after watching my parents, when I do find someone, I definitely do not want to be in their situation.
They are very traditional – my mom stayed home to raise us kids and worked the odd part time job if money was tight. My dad was the breadwinner. He doesn’t want my mom to work, even though they are in debt, because he likes to be taken care of. He likes to have his supper ready when he walks in the door and a clean house. On the weekends he does the yardwork. My mom complains that she never gets a “day off”. She also doesn’t feel like she can spend any money on herself since she doesn’t bring any home.
I have a few friends who have made the decision to stay home and raise children, and it works for them – but it is something I don’t think I could do. Not because I wouldn’t want to, but because I wouldn’t want to give up a good job – just in case.
May 12, 2010 at 9:05 am
My Husband makes slightly more than I do. For us we make sure the household expenses are paid evenly and other than that the left over money is for each to his own. I choose to save a bulk of mine, he saves some of his and spends the rest. I really don’t worry about it as long as the bills are looked after.
My mom and dad were really traditional but my mom also believed in being able to hold your own. So I know how to do most of the “man” jobs around the house. I would rather take care of the inside and let him deal with the outside. We have different standard like Sandy so by doing certain things myself it doesn’t bug me that it’s not done my way. Plus I don’t end up secretly re-doing things when he does them different.
May 12, 2010 at 9:30 am
Quite a diverse commentary and division.
I have always made more money than my better half, and in fact, have made more money than my bf’s previously. I think it may be a little of the control freak in me (unconciously) and have always kept finances seperate.
A few years ago, my parter became unemployed in a very emotionally devestating way (*never* work with family), so I cut him alot of slack in getting started on a new job. But in all honesty, there’s not alot out there for him with his skill sets, and he could get a job at Tim’s or construction, but because he also takes care of his mom and her house (2 hour drive away) — this would mean I would be living with him and his mom on weekends or not seeing him very frequently.
So voila! stay at home hubby, my salary is sufficient. We have no kids, 1 cat and a power difference that isn’t the healthiest. He does have a 4-hour job that he hates, that gives him enough money to cover his expenses (my requirement, that he couldn’t be a red blot on the finances).
It’s been very difficult to find our roles in this. And I try to think of him as an equal partner, but we both agree that Gail would beat him from one side of the room to the other about not having a job.
However, I believe that we have finally found a balance that works for us, although occasionally it still rears it’s head (like when he complains about the dishes – sadly I do like to make a lot of dishes
He takes care of his mom every other week – during Mon-Wed, and freezes meals in advance for me to eat during those times. He does majority of the housework. He will complete a list of chores that I give him (when I do).
It’s strange, but it’s working for us. Is it a struggle to not have resentment – you betchya! And sometimes, I feel bad about something that I say that springs from that place – but he has regrets too about complaining about dishes etc (especially when I aim both barrells).
It takes extra special patience sometimes, and a different perspective.
But if your partner is putting in 40 hours and making less, there really is no imbalance. The effort is the same, results – don’t matter.
And my partner – puts at least 40 hours into taking care of the people in his life… and that’s what matters to me 99% of the time.
May 12, 2010 at 9:43 am
I always made more (about 40% more) than my husband, but I’d say that when it comes to physical chores, he usually does more than I do, even though I’m sure his job is just as tiring as mine is. I do all the cooking, he does most of the cleaning… I do the laundry, he folds and puts away the clothes.. On the other hand, I am the one that handles the lion’s share of all the organizational things… researching things, setting up appointments, etc. I don’t think either of us is resentful of the other, we have a good balance..
May 12, 2010 at 10:04 am
We have, I think, a particularly tough time with this.
Hubby makes more than I do for now. But the nature of my job is that he has to give his up every two years and move around the world as a “trailing spouse” or we live on different continents for a few years.
It’s hard! The identity thing is big. People automatically assume I’m the trailing spouse, and then are shocked (and usually not terribly tactful) when they find out that he is. It’s also hard on my end- I never expected to be the primary breadwinner, and the pressure is tough!
May 12, 2010 at 10:21 am
My wife makes a good chunk more than me, but it’s never been an issue. Partly because I make a good income on my own anyway but also because we communicate well and discuss purchases over $100 well. As for chores, with a baby there’s a never ending list of them so we just do what we can do. We’re lucky in that we both like doing different things, for instance I hate laundry but don’t mind doing the dishes, and that’s reversed for her. One other thing we did was hire a cleaning lady who comes in twice a month for 4 hours, that gets rid of the stuff we both hate doing (ie cleaning bathtub). Lastly I can’t imagine any father nowadays not wanting to help with their child; I often joke that “I never thought I’d touch another dude’s junk every day but here I am, changing my son’s diaper)
My wife does do most of the cooking and grocery shopping though, but I do the finances and the house repairs and of course, I take out the trash. I think that may the one ‘manjob’ that never goes away.
May 12, 2010 at 10:28 am
Great comments and interesting to see how others live.
I grew up in an untraditional home and my husband grew up in a very traditional home. When we first moved in together, we would get home from work at about the same time. He would be sitting on the couch asking “what were we going to have for supper” and I would reply “whatever you are going to make” The look on his face was priceless with the shock. I explained that we both work a 40 hour week so why should I have to come home and cook and clean??
After 24 years of being together we have found a pretty good balance but he still falls back into his old habits sometimes. Not sure if that will every change.
I do take care of the children more than he does but I enjoy trucking my kids to sports and events.
He has never brought up that he makes more money than I do which is a good thing as I am not sure I would deal with that well.
From all the comments I think we can take from this……If it works for you and your relationship than it is fine for you. If it is not working….change it or move on.
May 12, 2010 at 10:38 am
We’ve always pooled the money and the housework. There is X amount of money coming in and we don’t worry about whose name was on the cheque. There is X amount of housework to be done and we divide it up based on skillset, preference and availability.
I enjoy doing laundry (yup I’m weird) and my husband likes to cook. Left to ourselves he’d only do laundry when everything was dirty and I’d always open a can of soup rather than really cook something. I’ve been working from home for just over a year so I’ve gradually started taking on more of the supper prepwork. It’s not my area of interest and I’m no Julia Child, but it makes logical sense since I can do a little prepwork or throw something in the crock pot when I stop for lunch. To balance out not having to do dinner most nights, he’s taken over driving the kids to most of their evening lessons.
Over the years the chore distribution has evolved as our work schedules have change and our kids have grown. Our teenaged son has now taken over cutting the lawn. A lawn tractor is as close as he can get to driving at 15. My husband now uses that time saved on a job he used to do, to work on the other landscaping chores that used to get neglected a bit.
I think it’s been great for the kids to see that there are no “rules” about who does what, and even what we do now will change over time. I grew up in a house with two working parents, while he grew up in a stereotypical “Leave it to Beaver” home. My expectations of a full contributing partner in all things was certainly an adjustment for him. From time to time his mom still comments about how lucky I am that he cooks, to which I sometimes answer that he’s lucky I do the laundry. I probably shouldn’t say anything but sometimes it just bursts out of me. She has made homemaking an art and I admire her skills. She cooks, cans, sews, gardens, arranges flowers and is an accomplished artist. She even handpaints Christmas cards… All useful skills, but not my interests. I look at most household work as chores and get my share done as quickly and efficiently as possible. End of story. We get along famously dispite our very different lives and responsibilities. I wouldn’t enjoy being a full time homemaker, and I don’t think she really understands my wanting a career.
If one of us were home all day it would be reasonable for that person to get all the housework done so the evenings and weekends could be more free, but that’s not our life. Since we both work full time it simply isn’t reasonable that one person would then also be responsible for everything at home. I’d wonder who I’d ticked off in a previous life to deserve that.
May 12, 2010 at 10:40 am
My husband has always made more money than I have. When I was staying at home with our 3 kids I did the majority of housework (poorly) and also most of the outside work. I figured my “job” was at home, hence I did it. When I went back to work part-time (I am only 27.5 hr per week) I still do the majority although that is changing. My daughters are responsible for their own laundry. I still do the hubby’s and my son’s, but my son will be learning how very shortly. My husband does wash the dishes and loads the dishwasher (way better than I ever could) and folds laundry. If there was anything else I have learned to ask and it gets done.
Our biggest mistake was not making our kids help out and assigning them chores to do. We are starting but there is a lot of resentment now from 3 teenagers.
May 12, 2010 at 11:03 am
For got to chime in on the income division thing.
According to our paycheques I make 70% of what my husband does, or said another way he brings in 59% of the total household income and I bring in 41%. It doesn’t matter to us who makes more, in fact he’s often joked that I should go right ahead and make more than him. My salary may be lower but since we don’t do Mine, Yours and Ours it really doesn’t matter. Because I’m a details person, I manage the finances on a day-to-day basis and track the accounts, pay the bills, do the weekly extra payments to the mortgage or RRSPs. I handle the tax returns and make sure we have our final RRSP contributions in on time. I read the sale flyers, clip coupons and do meal plans (we do the groceries together). It’s hard to put a dollar value on that work but we definitely live well below our means in large part to how we’ve laid out our spending plan and how I monitor things with laser like scrutiny to ensure we are always on track.
May 12, 2010 at 11:58 am
My husband used to make a lot more than me, now I make a lot more than him. As my income has gone up, I have taken over more bills. I used to be the one keeping track anyway, so paying out of my own account was easier. We both think that we do the lion’s share of household work and child-care. He doesn’t understand why the cleaning lady doesn’t keep the house spotless, and I am grateful she comes at all. It IS hard when your spouse is raised differently (full-time mom with a weekly cleaning lady vs the-kids-each-have-their-chores). Also, children are hard to “share”. what seems to work for us, mostly, is he does the lion’s share of pick-up and drop-off to & from school & activites. I hate driving at the end of the day. I do the doctor’s appts, scheduling of playdates, clothes purchasing etc. Neither of us cook well, thank goodness for chicken fingers/spaghetti/pizza & cut up vegetables.
But back to the income thing, you don’t have to have joint accounts to think of it as “our money”. My husband has always thought of it as “our money”, even before he was married. If you think as a couple, then it shouldn’t matter how much you make. And you don’t have to be a sensitive new age guy to be comfortable with your wife making more – my husband is the furthest thing from that! He’s just happy that WE have more money, and I am too.
May 12, 2010 at 1:37 pm
From the minute we started living together there was no his money, her money. It was always our money to be divided up as we decided. Of course the decisions were often really foolish but at least we were always crazy together. Over the decades we have both been the bigger earner and the lesser earner and there has never been any resentment. Both of us have always felt that if you want to be together you become one.
In our budgeting we have always each had an “allowance”. Money that was ours to do with as we chose, never any questions asked. The amount of the allowance has varied according to our financial circumstances.
May 12, 2010 at 2:38 pm
Amen for an amazing husband! I make somewhat more and I take care of the budgeting/financing b/c he hates it. But we both work hard at our jobs and split responsibilities at home equally. In fact, he’s the better house keeper. I know I’m one of the lucky ones and am grateful for it!!
May 12, 2010 at 2:40 pm
I have had one marriage where I was the one working 3 jobs, and making a lot more than my husband (it was beneath him to get a menial job), so I waitressed at a restaurant and a bar after, and did real estate (later accounting and went to school at night). I also did all the child rearing (of his 3 children) and all the household chores. So that ended after 10 years.
My next marriage we made close to the same amount of money, but all the household chores were still mine. Oddly enough when we had been dating he did his share of cooking, cleaning, and helping out. After we got married it all became “traditional” with me doing all the childrearing, and household chores. To top it off he ended up with depression, so he was my third child. After he screwed the neighbour I said enough.
So now I’m on my own with 2 little girls. I still have to do everything, but for a couple hours 2 evenings a week I get a break. If I wanted to, I could budget in a house keeper. My current boyfriend helps do laundry, vacuums without being asked, and does home improvement when he’s at my house. He came to the realization that he did not pull his weight around the house in his previous marriage, and he isn’t going to take someone for granted again. Wow. Someone who “got” it.
May 12, 2010 at 2:41 pm
A friend’s boyfriend moved in to her apartment to save expenses so he could pay off his credit card debt*. He did nothing around the house, and when she finally brought it up he sulkily said, “It’s YOUR apartment”.
All my friends who are reasonably happy with their boyfriends or husbands still use this telling phrase: “He helps out a lot”. Helps. I still don’t believe that men are doing their share of housework and the amount of money a woman makes doesn’t make a difference, except then a cleaner can be hired. Housework is yuckky and men (or children) just don’t want to do it.
*Yes, he’s still in debt.
May 12, 2010 at 3:11 pm
AnnieA – unfair to say that all men don’t pull their weight. Many of us do. Sometimes its a matter of communication/compromise – we may not clean to the exact same standards, but a reasonable compromise can be found if needs are communicated. For instance, my wife knows I won’t make the bed in the morning, I just won’t. So I get my son ready while she does it, works for us.
May 12, 2010 at 3:18 pm
These posts are so interesting from the point of view of a person who wants to move in (down the road a ways) with her boyfriend. I suspect there will be issues (mostly from me because I tend towards the lazier route – and I’m working on changing those bad habits) but I’m glad I had good role models in my parents. Because my mom taught piano at nights, Dad did cooking and general tidying up, and did laundry on saturdays so mom could sleep in. They split the rest of the chores, having a chore day where everyone in the family helped. I do think their dynamic is interesting though, since my dad will soon retire and my mom has been joking that she’ll have to keep working to “keep him in the manner to which he’s been accustomed.” (both my parents have a great sense of humor about stuff like this.) In all honesty, I’m looking forward to a time when this gets sorted out, since I already have to do everything myself anyway.
May 12, 2010 at 3:19 pm
I’ve been living with my current BF for 1.5 years and he hasn’t had a job in 2 years. He quit his old job (8 years at a design firm) thinking he could find work quickly but hasn’t. I highly suspect it is because he never got a college diploma. I’m working full time AND running an Etsy shop on the side and I’m paying 100% of all the bills. I’d say he does 20% of the chores like laundry or washing the dishes but I take the brunt of it.
He doesn’t want to find a minimum wage job because 1) It would take up his weekends and 2) he wouldn’t be able to go to the gym as often. But mostly I think its a pride thing.
He doesn’t spend my money…. but he plays video games most of the day and job searches intermittently.
I’m getting very tired. I don’t want this to happen forever. Everything is great in our relationship except for this whole money/job thing and it is eating away at me
May 12, 2010 at 3:34 pm
Our experience is much like Maureen’s. We pooled our money from day one (will celebrate our 25th in June). I don’t remember having a specific discussion on division of chores, etc. We just gravitated to what we liked or could deal with better. I take care of financial matters, he took the kids to their activities/sports and we both did chores. It did take some compromise. He’ll do the dishes but not right away. If I can leave them in the sink they will be done the next morning. If it bugs me then I do them. Certain things my husband will do automatically – like sweep the floors, vacuum or laundry (as long as I don’t expect the clothes to be sorted). Other things he doesn’t notice like dusting. I take care of the bathrooms as he hates that chore. It works great for us but we had to learn to let the other do things their way or to do it ourself and not complain.
As I have posted here before, the single biggest mistake we made was not insisting that our kids do scheduled chores. We got tired of arguing and it was easier to do it ourselves but in hindsight it was a big mistake. Our two boys will be in for a rude awakening when they’re on their own. Our daughter is considerably younger and we learned from our mistake and she has learned how to do things around the house and quite enjoys helping.
May 12, 2010 at 4:08 pm
@ Elle It is very hard to work all day, come home to someone who has been home all day and is not doing the same amount of work (ie 20% of the chores is ridiculous).
If you really want the relationship to go further, you need to sit down and talk with him. Explain how you’re feeling, and what you want to have change. There are plenty of agencies that will hire him temporarily without him having to work weekends…
It isn’t a pride thing, it’s a reality thing. If you could stay home all day, play video games, only do a few chores and still have a nice place etc — I would *LOVE* to do that.
You need to make it uncomfortable for him to stay home — and I don’t mean in a yelling/nagging kind of way. Put it out on the table — what are your expectations? Is there a deadline for finding a job?
Some people just need a kick in the pants to find their way again….
Tell him how it bothers you — tell him you don’t feel like he is looking, so in order to assist you, have him show you the places he is applying, looking through. Involve you a little in the process.
You’ll find out if it’s someone who just lost their way a little, or someone who wants it all their way.
Good Luck!
May 12, 2010 at 4:20 pm
We had a “traditional” marriage for many years…hubby worked I stayed home and cleaned the house and raised the kids…(not quite that cut and dried but you get the picture)…we were both very happy with this…it really worked for us…but then my husband became ill and at age 45 he had to retire…so I went to work full time and he is home full time….no big adjustments required…we needed to do it so we did it…in fact, turns out we should have done it years ago…lol…and like all things in a successful relationship, communication is the key…both points of view are important and compromise is a must:)
On another note, I attended the Smart Women $mart Money luncheon today here in Thunder Bay and Gail was the keynote speaker….it was great!…Lots of good info and great humour…I got her to sign my copy of Debt Free Forever and of course had my picture taken with her!…I was able to chat briefly with her as well and let her know how I put her Gailisms into practice in my job…and I even revealed my blogging identity!…LOL….
May 12, 2010 at 4:34 pm
@ Elle. I feel you. But 2 years is a long time. Does he want to go get some schooling done? How does he not use your money? Does he pay his share of rent and food, etc?
I’m having kind of the same problem with my hubby. He got laid off his job the day before my contract job ended. Then he took on some work at an organization (self-employed) and got terminated last month (not his fault – the employer is screwed up). I think he finally realized how important a degree is, he used to give me lectures about how unimportant it is and experience is what really counts. Yeah, not in this economy. And he’s feeling it. I find it hard because I’ve been working 12 hour days for 6 to 7 days a week and am really burning out. He feels bad, he’s seeing me burning out pretty bad. We’re 10 years apart and I’m 24 with 2 degrees. Education was really important for me as I saw my mother not being able to get the jobs she was qualified for because she only had 3 years of a degree (then got hit by a car and next year got breast cancer), So i knew to finish school really quick.
So it’s really hard not resenting my hubby. He did 6 years of uni, most paid my his parents and he didn’t finish with anything. Sometimes we have arguments and I say everything that’s on my mind. I feel bad about it but I feel that it’s better for me to say it then to keep it in a be resentful. I told him that I expect him to get things done when I’m gone at work all day. He’s always been really good about doing chores. My chore is folding the laundry and he makes sure he keeps it for me because it takes me a LONG time to get around to doing it. I cook though cuz he has no idea what to do in a kitchen (trying to teach him how to cook grilled cheese lol). He just got his books for his 2 first classes by correspondance. He’s still looking for a job – I told him he needs to take ANYTHING that will pay but I don’t think he will because he’s really prideful. I mean, I guess I understand that it would suck to go from $26 an hour as a manager to $10 an hour at McD’s but still. We need the money right now. I’m killing myself. So yeah, resentment’s there but I feel as long as I tell him the truth about how I feel, I don’t feel as resentful and he does get a lot done around the house, so I’m really happy about that. But this was definately not the life I wanted, and I am very resentful that at 34 he couldn’t get his ducks in a row before he met me. But what’s done is done. So Elle, I would honestly re-think your whole relationship. Because honestly, if he doesn’t try to make it work now, he probably won’t try later. And is that how you want it for the rest of your life? I know it sounds harsh, but do think about it. Either you can, and you just have to live with it or you can’t and things need to change. Easier said than done, I know.
May 12, 2010 at 4:52 pm
well i guess he DOES use my money via groceries but he doesn’t ask for money to buy things (entertainment, shopping, etc.)
I rarely eat out so I’m always cooking. And when I’m cooking I end up with more food for just one person so he eats it.
So he does eat up a share of my grocery bill but I don’t consider that much since I eat from home.
May 12, 2010 at 4:53 pm
forgot to add:
he doesn’t pay for rent though. in the beginning he helped out by buying groceries for us but now that his cash is dwindling I don’t think it will happen anymore.
May 12, 2010 at 5:01 pm
@Mimi
How coincidental. I’m 25 and my BF is 30. I’m also a bit sad he wasn’t able to get a degree before he met me.
I’ve had a few fights about this with him. He knows how I feel, but it still doesn’t push him to get a minimum wage job. I don’t want to push him any more than I have already or else he will just get fed up with me pressuring him.
He has about $500 in savings left. Once that goes to zero, I’m hoping he will finally up the ante and go for anything that comes up.
I’ve asked him to move home to his parents without breaking up but he got all hurt and basically told me “if you don’t want here anymore why don’t you just break up with me for real?” I know it was very petty of him.
But I don’t want to lose this relationship, you know? Everyone I ask always tells me the same thing… “forget him” but its very difficult to choose between your heart and your head.
May 12, 2010 at 5:10 pm
Elle –
Sounds to me like he has quite the life.. free food, free roof and board, video games all day and some free lovin’ too.
You know (you KNOW) the train is pulling into the ‘next stop, splittsville… alight here NOW’ stop unless he does a major 180.
May 12, 2010 at 6:58 pm
I find the hardest part is not a willingness to split chores, it’s misunderstanding which chores need to be done and when. He is perfectly willing to do it, but I always (ALWAYS) have to take the initiative and make a list. He is incapable of looking at a room and identifying dirty versus clean or even cluttered versus clean. But if I make a list, we get it done. Mildly annoying to have to be in that role but since he likes to cook, I mostly don’t mind.
May 12, 2010 at 7:01 pm
And if I didn’t wash the sheets, he would go YEARS without doing it. No, seriously.
May 12, 2010 at 7:13 pm
My mom taught me from the get-go that I always needed to be able to take care of myself, and so I can. I believe in equal pay for equal work and that there are no jobs out there that a woman can’t do or ones a man can’t do (except give birth I guess). But then I had children and wanted to stay home with them more than anything. I never thought traditional roles were bad if they made you happy but I also never thought I’d fall into them. So here I am, homemaker and happier than a pig in poo as they say.
I did read a scientific study years ago that said that men just don’t have the visual acuity to see dust. I think this is a crock of sh*t but I digress and let it go. Plenty of studies tell us that men have better spatial perception than women so to me, that should include dust. I agree with aformentioned posts that say men and teenagers don’t take the initiative but will perform the chore when asked.
May 12, 2010 at 7:25 pm
@elle, I feel for you but I can’t help but wonder what is so great about his guy?
Not only that, but men often identify themselves with their ability to earn/provide. You are not doing any favors to his self-esteem by allowing him to be dependent on you. If you really care about him… well, you get the picture.
May 12, 2010 at 8:07 pm
We both grew up in traditional households. We earn almost the identical amount so when we fight about splitting the housework neither of us can really use the money excuse. He does the laundry, I fold it. I cook most of the time, he washes dishes most of the time. He does the tub and mops the floors. I do the toilet and sink and broom. I do, however, do 100% of the organizing in the household, including the kitchen, filing system, linen cupboard, wardrobes, etc… We both function better in an organized space but he’s not big on maintaining that organization, so sometimes that causes a fight. But he does do about 90% of all our car care stuff, so he gets frustrated with me too on occasion. We’re coming up to the one year and are thinking of babies, but we can’t figure out how we would split that work.
May 12, 2010 at 8:40 pm
Jenn, my home sounds similar. It’s a common pot with both of us pulling our weight chore-wise where our strengths and interests lie. I could bore you with a list of who does what, but it doesn’t really matter.
However, for years my husband made more than me and we never thought anything about it. Now I make more, and it was tough at first for his pride and for me to have to think about shouldering the responsibility for paying the major bills. That’s when we took on Gail’s plan. Suddenly, the idea of who brought home what didn’t matter; it was about how much was in total was in the pot at the end of the month to pay the bills, save for the future etc.
The traditional roles for earning money do exist, but times are changing rapidly and our way of thinking about these things will have to follow suit.
May 12, 2010 at 9:37 pm
I earn half of what my hubby earns. I also work only 24 hrs/wk compared to his 40 hrs/wk. As a result, I do probably 75% of the household chores and child care which I feel is fair, and works well in our home.
May 12, 2010 at 10:50 pm
@elle
Love is not just an emotion, it’s behaviour too.
Love is not just saying ‘i love you’, it’s actions like kissing you hugging you.
Love is not just saying ‘i’m trying to get a job but there’s nothing out there’, it’s sending out 20 resumes a day, going to job fairs, shaking hands with potential employers, doing chores while you are at work because he loves you and wants you to worry less/work less, spend more money on yourself rather than on his food/laundry detergent/etc. These are the loving actions of someone who loves you.
If he hasn’t done these things tell him to. If he still doesn’t behaves like someone who loves you, then he doesn’t really love you, he is only mouthing the words to keep his free ride.
Someone who really loves you will do anything they can to help you when you are stressed. Tell him that you are depressed and stressed. Tell him before he tells you that he’s depressed and uses that as an excuse to continue to sponge off you. Tell him how tired you are and ask him if he loves you and if he will do all he can so that you can be happy.
ask yourself: does he behave lovingly? only you can answer that.
good luck.
May 13, 2010 at 12:06 am
@Elle… I just have to add to what others are saying and say that at 25, this may seem like normal, ok, behaviour that may be a phase. It seems everyone I know went through a phase where they didn’t work as they were trying to ‘figure it out’. And from your perspective at 25 this may seem normal. But he is 30! I’m only 2 years older than that, but honestly, I feel there is a huge difference between 25 and 30 among all of my peers…this guy should be getting on with it and working hard, with goals. You deserve better than this. A 30 year old guy staying home and playing video games all day instead of growing up…sounds like he is delaying the inevitable in regards to growing up.
May 13, 2010 at 12:30 am
Currently, I am the one working the most, and earning the most. It has switched back and forth many times over the last two years, due to the nature of our jobs, and the economy in general.
I have to admit, I tend toward the lazy side. If we could afford a cleaning lady for our little apartment, we’d have her here regularly. I don’t mind dust, but
At the moment, I am the more motivated, so I do the most. The fact that he works only 65% of the hours I do irks me a bit, but I know it could easily be a reverse situation down the road.
There are some chores that we each do, but we will be working on a general weekly checklist this weekend.
May 13, 2010 at 12:33 am
Oh, and I’m finding it interesting that in this discussion, the women tend to be the organizers, whatever they do. I wonder if this is something innate, or just a cultural thing, handed down through generations.
May 13, 2010 at 8:54 am
@ Elle, I totally understand. I saw a lot of similarities between my story and yours. My hubby and I just got married last year, it’ll be a year in June. Not that I’m thinking of divorcing him, but I definatly would not date someone like this again. He is super generous, treats me like a princess, is very loyal to his family, job, etc. I love him. You guys aren’t married, so I would just consider this as a sign of what the rest of your life will be like. I made my hubby mow lawns for 10$ an hour on Monday. Wow did he hate it! So hopefully that’ll make him want to do something. But you can’t change someone, believe me. Also, some guys can’t break up with someone, they wait for the other person to do it. This might be a case of that? He needs the ultimate ass-kick or he won’t get his butt in gear? At least he has savings. But without free rent, those savings would have disappeared a long time ago. So anyways, I feel for you and I will pray for you
I know it’s not as easy as it sounds.
May 13, 2010 at 9:24 am
@ Elle Unless something really traumatic happened between 20-28 years of age for him, you should probably cut your losses. He would go to $0 in the bank, eat your food etc — actions speak louder than words.
2 years is long enough – and if he takes a reasonable suggestion like moving back in with parents, and remaining boyfriend / girlfriend why he sorts himself out, and then “manipulates” you by making it a be all and end all…. he’s going to manipulate you the rest of your lives together.
You’re worth more than this.
May 13, 2010 at 10:13 am
Hi Gail,
Four years ago my partner became ill with a rare heart disease and he had to quit work. Trucking was the only thing he knew. So, I went back to work full time and he stayed home. There was never any question as to who was going to do what or who was making more money. Michael just took over the house and never complained.
When I read your article I asked him how he felt about the situation. He told me it never occurred to him to get angry with me. He said, “You work a full day and it just made sense to get things done around the house so we could spend our evenings together.” He also told me he now has a greater appreciation of what women do for their families.
Do I have an angel, you bet your bippy I do!
Judith P.
May 13, 2010 at 6:02 pm
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Jayn Steele. Jayn Steele said: Some great tips on how couples can deal with income splitting and relationships: http://bit.ly/9PANm7 [...]
May 14, 2010 at 12:20 am
When my husband left me for the other woman, I was the sole breadwinner in the household. He was a stay at home parent, even though all the kids are in school. He is a loving father, but didn’t do chores besides doing about half of the cooking and a couple of sink loads of dishes in the week.
My resentment for this grew and grew. I would get home from work to find that usually the kids weren’t fed, the house was a huge mess, kids’ homework wasn’t done, laundry wasn’t done, etc. I had to hit the ground running as soon as I got home and didn’t stop until midnight. At that point, my husband would want to have sex. Give me a break. That’s where the other woman came in.
When he left, I was so happy that I was bringing home the bacon and cooking it, because nothing really changed for me. I was stable and actually had less stress because I was no longer wasting time fighting about doing chores or curbing his spending.
Regarding the home/work split, I think that most woman can succeed at their jobs if they know that things are alright in the home. The work inside the home speaks to them – they are more aware of what needs to be odone. I think that most men can succeed at home if they feel secure in their work.
May 14, 2010 at 11:24 am
I am so, so, so lucky to be on the same page financially as my husband. I make more so I put a little more towards bills/savings/etc, and other than that, we can use the rest of our money for whatever we want as long as we don’t put it on credit. Hence, I take weird little vacations, he buys lots and lots of guitars. No big deal.
I am also so, so lucky that he cooks over 99% of our meals because I would have starved a long time ago. I hate cooking. I do most of the inside housework, he does most of the outside housework and all he cooking, and we help each other if required.
I do agree that typically men don’t “see” that something has to be cleaned (mainly that the garbage or recycling are full – what’s up with that??). However, my husband takes it upon himself to fix things around the house almost as soon as they’re broken (or before I even know something’s wrong), and after visiting houses that are somewhat less clean than the standard I keep up, he has told me how much he notices the difference and appreciates it. Yup, I consider myself pretty damn lucky.
May 18, 2010 at 11:19 am
I would say my husband and I bring home about the same income, but just in different form; where I am a fixed salary employee, he’s payed hourly and is offered overtime quite often. He also has a p/t job in the hospitality sector that allows for a little extra money to be put towards debt payment and “fun stuff”.
“Who makes more $” is never a topic of conversation in our home because it just doesn’t matter. For years, he made more money and it wasn’t ever an issue. It’s all going into the same pot to pay for OUR bills and living expenses.
My parents raised my sister and I to be self-sufficient and indepedent, and as my Dad put it, “I don’t want either of my daughters to ever have to rely on a man to get them through life”. My husband’s upbringing was much more traditional; his Mom looked after the house and kids, and his Dad was the breadwinner… my husband thrilled that I was raised the way I was!
I would say I do a little more housework than he does, but it’s not by much! The playing field is about a 60/40 split, and I’ll gladly do the lion-share of the dishes and clean the bathrooms if it means I don’t have to vacuum
@ Elle – When my husband lost his f/t job in Oct./09 and only worked at his p/t job, he was constantly applying for jobs online, sending out resumes (several “cold call” resumes resulted in interviews, and he landed a f/t job in Feb/10). When he wasn’t working his butt off to find a f/t job, he cooked, cleaned, did landry, vacuumed, etc… the way he saw it, his $ contribution to the household wasn’t as much as it used to be, and he made up for it in keeping neat and order in our home. We’re a team, and there was never an ounce of resentment on my part because he lost his f/t job due to downsizing and subsequent closure of his company.
You’re only 25…. you don’t have to live your life like this! You don’t have to pay his way, he’s just downright lazy. Cut your losses and get rid of him. If he’s like this now, what’ll he be like in 1, 2, 5, 10 years from now?? No all men are like him; there are some really good ones out there!