You’re ENTITLED!
Posted by Gail | Filed under Take Control
There, I’ve said it. There is something you’re ENTITLED to and it’s about time you started demanding it.
Here’s a letter typical of those I get from people who don’t know where to turn for answers:
I have been reading your advice and watching your show for quite some time now, thank you! My question is this, for RESP’s what do you recommend for someone who has been reading and doing research, I still don’t feel I understand the fee structure and the language they are using…I have been burned before even when I think I am asking the right questions, and trying to understand. I don’t trust what anyone is telling me and I end up leaving the money in a savings account. How can I find the right person to advise me if no one I know has a person, and our insurance person and bank people are only selling their products. Who are the legit players, how do you find someone who actually knows vs. pretends to know. I want to get the money I have saved working and growing for my girls while they are little…I am so scared of messing up and wasting money. I don’t want them to go through what I did with student loans and no advice. Any suggestions? Thank you,
This woman has a couple of issues. First, there’s the issue of what RESPs are and how they work. This isn’t a difficult product to understand, although there are some twists and turns with the grant money available. And since Group RESPs (Boo! Hiss!) have done so much to undermine the reputation of the product, lots of people are left doubting a savings alternative that is, in fact, a very good choice.
The short story is you shouldn’t buy a Group RESP. Even the government thinks they suck. When you do buy an RESP, start with an individual plan for each of your children. You can always move to a family plan later (but you can’t move the other way.) Try and put away as much as you can to get all the grant to which you’re entitled. And when it comes to investing the money, make sure you’re comfortable with the alternatives you’re being offered and the timeframe until your child will need the money. If you’re not, then stick with the tried and true, even if the returns are lower. You’ll have received the grant money and that will have given your savings a nice boost.
The second issue this woman is bringing forth in her letter is the whole “who do I trust” issue. This is biggie. It’s a real shame that we don’t know who we can trust when it comes to our money management. Once upon a time the financial institutions in Canada took their “fiduciary” responsibilities seriously and knew the importance of giving sound customer-focused advice. Sure, they were a little paternalistic. But hey, they never handed credit to anyone who couldn’t pay it back, and they never suggest people invest in things they didn’t understand. Now with KYC (Know Your Client) forms all checked off and their butts covered, they let the blind lead the blind.
If you’re a banker, don’t go getting on your high horse and writing me scathing emails about slandering what you do. Good advisors know who you are, have customers that are happy to refer friends and family, and nothing I say bothers them. They’re damn good at their jobs and don’t have to justify their existence to anyone. They take real pleasure from helping their customers and they – and their clients – know they are trustworthy.
But for every one of you guys, there are a dozen Joes who are doing it for the commission or to meet the sales targets. All you have to do is look at how unhappy clients are with their experiences to see just how much damage has been done by putting sales targets first and giving bad advice.
When I walk into a bank, asked to have my account changed from statement (with a fee) to passbook (with no fee), and the salesperson is so busy selling me overdraft (which I do not want) that she can’t get the original request done right, that’s failure. When a young Princess who makes $1600 a month gets a credit card with a $5,000 balance, which she has no hope of every being able to repay, that’s a failure. When a woman watches her retired husband come home in a bank-financed new vehicle that will eat virtually all this pension income in payments, that’s a failure. And I have about a thousand similar stories.
The best advice I can give is to tell you that you need to find a body you trust who has a body they trust, and then ask that trusted advisor to help you too. There are wonderful people in the financial services sector who are great at what they do and would love to help you. If you don’t know who they are, you need to get a recommendation. Ultimately, they say, the cream comes to the top. If we’re all determined to find people who are good at what they do, and shun the pathetic wanna-be’s that get thrown at us in our daily experiences, then we can ferret out the good ones.
I have an investment advisor who I know I can trust. Patrick is not only thorough, he’s sensible. I have an insurance advisor who is on the money. While Nathan is young, he’s focused and great at what he does. Age and experience can be important. But they’re not the be-all and end-all.
Ultimately, the best advice I can give you is to tell you to stop taking crap from people. When you feel like you’ve received bad advice, don’t just walk away grumbling. Escallate the issue to the next level of management and demand good advice. If you have to go all the way to the Vice-President, do it! The only way insitutitons will stop putting ineffectual representatives in your way is if you make ‘em. So stop buying the bull and demand the best. You work hard for your money. You’re ENTITLED!
January 22, 2010 at 8:04 am
Gail, I’ve been there recently. A bank representative called to ask if he could help me in any way and even though I said not really, he suggested that we get together so that he could know me better. So, I did go, to perhaps discuss retirement issues. When I got there, I did say that there was one thing that I was unhappy about. He checked my profile and updated it and saw that I didn’t have any of their banking products (so he really wanted to know me?). I just shuttered. I didn’t want their Visa, I didn’t want to borrow money for RSP contributions, and this was the first line of attack. Well, I keep thinking where are the good people who will listen to what you want to do with your life and try to find a way to help you with information, support, and then perhaps if a product works for you in that situation, then they can suggest it. It’s in the commercials!!
Part of my problem with this bank is that as the breadwinner, my husband who is on a very limited pension, was given another increase to his Visa credit limit. He is now at $22,000.00 allowed to him. This is up $6,000.00 from the last over inflated amount which had been extended to him. I don’t have this limit as the breadwinner (not that I would want it) but a person who has only a pension income, is pushed to accept or use this huge amount of credit. I can’t do anything about it, the Visa is in his name. If he were to use that credit, without my permission, since my husband is over 81, and not really a financial person since he thinks that credit looks like free money, I told this rep. that the bank can pick up the costs for any of his silliness. They have given him carte blanche to put me into a difficult situation if he died, and frankly, I told this rep. that I wasn’t paying any of it. That was one of the reasons why I had been considering leaving this bank. I have separate accounts in my name but I am not paying for stupidity as my husband is not all there somedays. They granted this credit and if he uses it, it’s their problem.
Within a month I got a request for a survey from the bank and so, I did answer the questions on the phone with a young man. I couldn’t add things to the end of statements – it was just a point system, and I couldn’t find the right answer for many questions because it wasn’t an open option for me to give my true answer. However, there was one question where the young man was to copy down my verbal answer and so I told the young man exactly how I felt about the bank’s need for money grabbing by pushing their products versus truly listening to my concerns. Will this make a difference? Not likely, it will always be – same old, same old. They really aren’t able to listen because they work at cross purposes with their clients needs.
January 22, 2010 at 8:49 am
@gemini
Absolutely stupid and makes no sense but I have seen this before.
One relative lost a spouse and this character had 2 cards going on a cpp,wwII vets pension no less!!!
Wound up they, card companies wanted her to pay out from the estate which she didn’t have enough to do.
They then wanted her to personally pay it…which she didn’t/doesn’t have to.
They threatened(the usual high handed bs) and I told her not to pay, there wasn’t technically enough in the estate
They contacted her and we got them to forget about it on a joint sign off…them and her.
January 22, 2010 at 8:57 am
I think you hit the nail on the head today Gail. I’ve got myself a great advisor and he is working out well. I really hate it when banks are trying to sell you stuff instead of offering down to earth banking services with a smile. Banks are now retail operations and it sucks.
regards,
Jason
January 22, 2010 at 9:01 am
Well said Gail. We are all entitled to good products and service, whether it’s in the financial services industry or any other. If we like a certain brand of car and we’re happy with its reliability and performance, then we’ll commit our hard-earned dollars to it.
Likewise with advisors: only those who provide good products and services deserve our business. This is how capitalism is supposed to work. I agree that it’s hard to find someone you trust. I have been doing it on my own for a number of years now and I’ve learned a lot. Still, I wouldn’t mind having someone I trust to run ideas by or offer new ones that I might not be aware of.
January 22, 2010 at 9:29 am
Gail, I always enjoy reading your blog. As I look at the messes some people find themselves in, I wonder where all the good advisors are. As an advisor myself, I have been providing advice to clients for over 20 years and realized a long time ago that being honest and forthright is the simplest approach.
I guess the biggest problem is this – I don’t want too many clients – having too many means the ones I already have may suffer from poorer service. As well, our industry is fraught with issues the general public is unaware of. Having to deal with the various regulators and compliance is a nightmare. Everyone out there has a “friend” who told them a story they believe to be true. Most of the time it is not but that is how myths are perpetuated.
Lastly, the problem we have is knowledge. Many people liken a CFP (Certified Financial Planner) to the holy grail of advisors. “He/She has a CFP so they must know what they are doing”. I get at least 5-6 calls per month from CFP’s asking me questions because they either don’t know the answer or are too busy to find out. Please don’t misunderstand – the skill set to become a CFP is important. However, the skill of listening to people and understanding them and being empathetic with them – those skills don’t appear in many of our textbooks.
January 22, 2010 at 9:32 am
Hi Gail
I just came across this the other day. I’m a cert credit counsellor and had a client in who said she had gone to the bank to see if they could help her with her budget and maybe give her some tips. All they wanted to do was give her more $$, she wants to be debt free and they are trying to push her into taking out more.
I actually was very blunt with her (just like you are in your show:) She said she needed that and was greatful I didn’t pussy foot around the money issues. Really they weren’t in that bad of shape but needed tips on how to get rid of the c.c debt-snowball was my advise. She had never heard of it but is willing to try. We made a new workable budget-told her to stick it on the fridge where hubby can look at it everyday.
She left my office with a smile and a plan and was going to stick to her guns. I love it when clients call or e-mail with the progress they’ve made, makes my job all that more enjoyable:)
Have a great day.
January 22, 2010 at 10:31 am
But what do you do if you already have the Group RESP? (Talk about do-overs)…
I feel like I got taken for a ride (or am being taken for a ride)…
So, I continue to put my money there because I don’t know what else to do…
Any thoughts?
January 22, 2010 at 10:36 am
This is exactly what I needed to read today. After our mulligan discussion yesterday, my husband and I went to two meetings yesterday (lawyer & bank) to sign off on our first home purchase and mortgage. I knew it was going to be stressful and draining, but I didn’t anticipate actually losing my strength and questioning what I thought we had decided on. Somehow we left having signed up for mortgage insurance with our mortgage lender (TD), which we had decided prior to our meeting we weren’t going to do. I am going in today to cancel this, because once we left the meeting and I had time to digest what had happened, my blood was actually boiling. I am extremely angry about the whole situation and plan to be very open about this when I go in today.
Our mortgage rep put the papers in front of us and didn’t even tell us what they were. He turned back to his computer and said, “oh, and we just need you to read this in your head and select no here.” This was after about 10 documents we had to sign that did seem legit. I started reading and realized what it was and stopped and said, “excuse me, what is this?” To which he responded, “Oh it’s your application for the insurance on the mortgage”. We stated that we didn’t want it. In hindsight I now know that this is exactly when he began working backwards and I can actually piece together each step he took to convince us now. He told us he needed to go through a process now that we were declining in order to show us our risk and that this was just part of “due diligence” on their part. So he plugged in numbers into his computer that displayed our current incomes vs. investments and threw the word cancer around about 30 times, added a stupid anecdotal story about someone he knew who worked at the bank and had cancer and didn’t buy this insurance, then showed us a bunch of graphs with huge red deficits that were supposed to show us how screwed we would be if one of us died or was critically ill. My dh asked if we could purchase later, once we’ve talked more. To which he said, “well you do have thirty days, but what happens if you leave this meeting and get hit by a car tomorrow? If you sign today you can always call and cancel within the thirty days”.
Now as I type this I am realizing how stupid this all sounds. But when you are in the moment, going through a huge process for the first time and you are emotionally and mentally drained, your critical thinking skills begin to be drained too. Thank you for reinforcing what I needed to hear this morning Gail!
January 22, 2010 at 10:45 am
Can anyone comment on this below? I found it in one of my RESP brochure.
Does that mean it is a maximum they can take out?
Is there a limit on EAPs?
For RESPs opened after 1998, the maximum amount in EAPs that can be made by one RESP promoter to a student as soon as he/she qualifies to
receive them is $5,000. After the student has completed 13 consecutive weeks in the qualifying educational program, there is no specified limit on
the amount of EAPs that can be paid if the student continues to qualify to receive them. However, the funds must be for the purpose of furthering
the post-secondary education of the student. If there is a 12-month period in which the student is not enrolled in a qualifying educational program
for 13 consecutive weeks, the $5,000 maximum applies again. If the beneficiary requires more than this amount, the client may make a written request
to HRSD providing proof of the additional costs to the beneficiary. Part-time students will be allowed to access up to $2,500 of their income and
grants for each 13-week semester of study. Students will be required at least 12 hours a month on courses, in a course lasting at least three
consecutive weeks. Amounts requested above $20,000 may require receipts and approval.
January 22, 2010 at 10:59 am
What gets me as a healthcare worker is that I and all my compatriots MUST achieve a 35-45 year career without making ONE SINGLE MISTAKE. And we do it. Yet in other industries they are allowed to make 6 a day, ie “your application was in the other department so nothing was done” only after we called to see what was up. No one in the other department noticed it just needed to be moved one desk over? Our capitalist culture says it is based on customer service but it really isn’t.
January 22, 2010 at 11:04 am
@ib, I’ll try. RESPs are made up of Contributions by the Subscriber and grant and income earned (EAP). There is only a limit to the grant you can get in the first year (or first 13 weeks). This is the government ensuring that the whole kitten kaboodle of grant is not taken right away. After the first semester you can take whatever you want. If the costs for first semester are more than $5,000 which they can be, you can also take from the contribution amount. There is no limit to that. Most investment firms, like ours, only require a proof of enrollment to get the funds. We don’t need to know what you’re using the more for. However, if the government sees that you are only in a local community college which may only cost say $4,000 for the semester but you took out $20,000, they may choose to audit you so keep all receipts. Hope that helps.
January 22, 2010 at 11:21 am
Gail: cream ain’t the only thing that floats.
When a bank wants a meeting to discuss your finances, it’s similar to your doctor wanting you to come in to discuss test results.
Banks never want to put anything in writing, not even an email.
I’ve found escalating complaints for poor service is bad for your blood pressure and that even the top levels really don’t care. Although that doesn’t stop me trying.
The comment ‘line of attack’ from banks is exactly how I feel.
January 22, 2010 at 11:48 am
I think that total credit card limits should be 2 net paychecks (all CC’s combined). This would help people in a bind and allow them to pay it off. The minimum payment should be 10% of balance + the interest incurred during that period. Any limit beyond that (some business and individuals need it – travelling, business purchases…-) would require someone to sign a ‘clause of awareness’ like they do when you borrow $ to invest. But I am not minister of finance and prorogue is on. (BTW, do we get a budget this year????)
My MF advisor is ok. She does have to ask me once in a while whether I want to open an account X with the bank. She knows my answer and does not push, she just does what her job requires her to do.
Mortgage insurance at the bank? They are not insurance brokers. They may not know what other insurance you have in place. Go to the Marketplace (CBC) website to watch their episode on this. I forget when it was but it might be:
http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/in_denial/
January 22, 2010 at 11:59 am
Hi Gail,
I am an advisor, and I agree with everything you said except one point – a family plan is usually much better than individual; it allows more freedom for effective tax planning upon withdrawal (for families in higher tax brackets) but still gives all the benefits of the individual plans. At least, that’s the case with the plans I’ve seen in the 3 institutions I’ve worked at over the years. It also minimizes annual trustee fees per account (if applicable).
I recommend people check out http://www.investored.ca for some great info written in English (not financial-ese) on RESPs, and any other investment vehicle available in the Canadian marketplace.
Cheers!
January 22, 2010 at 12:01 pm
DTN….This is my mulligan. I also pay into a Group RESP and have heard often that it is a bad idea but I am worried that I will loose more than just the interest if I move it or take it out.
Can anyone help or explain what truly happens in this regards.
Has anyone closed/moved/cancelled a Group RESP and what happened.
Thank you for any help in advance.
January 22, 2010 at 12:27 pm
I agree with the poster who said that banks are now retail operations. To be fair, though, I found a senior investment advisor, at the bank that holds my senior family member’s investments, who did listen and who took extraordinary measures to provide excellent customer service. At my own bank, however, there has been no effort to ‘work with’ me as a customer and I’m hounded, each time I visit a teller, to accept that bank’s credit card or TFSA or any other product being promoted. Guess it’s up to us customers to become vocal.
January 22, 2010 at 12:35 pm
DTN & Angela – ditto! We have 4 children, currently only have RESP in place for our oldest and it is with a group policy (though can be transferred to our other children if he doesn’t use it). I have no idea if/how to transfer it out to another institution. Can’t talk to the company because it always comes full circle to them wanting us to enroll our girls and increase amounts and not being helpful. I can’t even find credit for the government top up in any of the paperwork, though they say it is automatically applied! I will check out the website recommended by Jenny J, but if any one else has experience closing/moving them it would be great to hear.
One other question/statement though…2 of my co-workers reported loses on their kids RESP’s when the market took a downfall last year. One said they lost 10K, another 7K!!! How is that possible?? At least the plan we have guarantees we won’t loss princilple even if the rate of return can’t be guaranteed. Did they possibly receive bad advice? I can’t imagine losing part of my children’s education fund. That’s money I don’t want to risk.
January 22, 2010 at 1:07 pm
We are in group resp’s as well. We were 21 and in the midddle of paying for our own university when we signed our daughter up. $200 a month for 51/2 years and I don’t think that we have lost any money yet. We looked into moving it but the penalty was so high…I think it was around $2000 based on the amount of units we bought. We aren’t doing it for our second child, I just opened one at the bank but it will never be as high as our eldest. There are 5 years apart so hopefully there will be the principal we put in left over for our youngest.
January 22, 2010 at 2:44 pm
@Jennifer
Wow, that story actually disgusted me. Blood-sucking leeches they are. I was always interested in finance – and the career money makes me that much more interested. But ethically, I don’t think I could do it. It’s like working for an oil company. The independant financial planner role sounds like someone could make a difference…if they’re actually sincere.
January 22, 2010 at 4:08 pm
@Jennifer,
Please run…don’t walk….to the bank and cancel that mortgage insurance.
Any proceeds from the bank’s mortgage insurance will only be paid to the Bank to pay off the outstanding balance on your mortgage. Your beneficiaries will not receive anything.
You are much better off getting term insurance privately to cover the full amount of your mortgage amount. The amount insured does not decline as you pay off your mortgage, and you can name your own beneficiaries on the policy.
January 22, 2010 at 4:24 pm
You know, I totally get what you are saying about Banks just trying to sell you everything they can! I got a phone call from my bank the other day, and they asked if I was happy with my service (I felt like saying I would be a lot happier if they stopped calling me all the time!) but I said yes I was.
Then this guy starts in about protection for my identity and how the first 30 days is free, etc. He then goes on to state that he just needs to confirm my address for this new “free” (for 30 days) service. I told him I wasn’t interested and it was like I was fighting with him so that the bank wouldn’t sign me up for 30 days! He even asked me why I wasn’t interested! What business is it of his?
If I was concerned, I would have called them and asked about the service. Does anyone else ever get phone calls like this from their banks? My bank is averaging about 1 call every month and I am getting SO sick of it.
January 22, 2010 at 5:23 pm
@AshB
Yes, I also get annoying sales calls from the bank and the credit card company. It seems like they have a scripted counterattack for every “no”.
While it would be very satisfying to give the salesperson a piece of my mind, I suspect it wouldn’t change anything or might even come back to haunt me. I chose the safer path and simply don’t answer them anymore (Thank you, caller ID!). I also check my bank and credit card statements online everyday. If the bank has a real message for me, they can leave a voicemail.
January 22, 2010 at 6:26 pm
Whenever I get unwanted telephone calls I always say:
“I’m sorry. I don’t respond to calls where I have not myself initiated an inquiry.”
It stops them in their tracks and they usually are compliant and say thanks anyway, and we hang up.
January 22, 2010 at 7:32 pm
Maybe this sounds harsh, but I don’t know that we can totally blame the banks for providing too much credit, giving loans to people that they won’t likely be able to repay etc.
The banks are in business. Yes, the fees are annoying and high, they probably give out too much credit, blah, blah blah – but it is a business. Given how high the fees are, we should probably all ensure that we buy shares in each of the big-banks so that we can be “owners” and share in these profits.
The real issue is the people who take these loans. Just because a bank gives someone a loan, or a large credit card balance, or big mortgage, doesn’t mean people should take it. Again – may sound harsh, but just my thoughts.
January 22, 2010 at 7:40 pm
I used to get the pushy sales calls from my bank all the time (about identity theft protection, upgrading my credit cards etc.). The last time they called, I was very insistent that I did not want to get any more calls. The rep finally put me on a ‘do not contact’ list for sales calls. No calls since!
Also, you can request that your credit card company not increase your limit without first checking with you. I did this after the first time they raised my limit…they dropped it back down and never tried raising it again.
January 22, 2010 at 8:07 pm
I do 99% of my own investing. My background is in business and I prefer not to pay commission on top of MERs in Mutual Funds. I have used an investment person when I received a large sum of money about some relatives passing, however, I think they have have transferred me to 4 different people already since some have relocated. I only go in when the investments come do, since they can give an extra 1-2% on top of the web listed percentages. I already know what I want, so I just do it, to get the extra %%% which adds up nicely.
I have had the banks can me when i had money in my RRSP savings, so I had them set up an monthly transfer to my RRSP Mutual fund and a monthly transfer to my RRSP Savings accounting. The mutual fund was suggested by the person over the phone and I have to say it has performed exceptionally well since I started putting funds in and I hope it continues.
January 22, 2010 at 10:23 pm
To AshB and others, banks are required to maintain Do Not Call Lists so make sure you get yourself on it. I deal with 4 different institutions and never get calls.
To JaC – that requirement for cc to ask before raising the limit is supposed to be in the new requirements but since they aren’t finalized yet it may not be in the final regulations (which might be voluntary for the banks to follow at first).
Finally, at most institutions the people who work at the call centre are given more training and authority over the people who work at the branches, so if you have an issue it is usually easier to resolve over the phone and you always have the option to hang up. When in uni I worked in a bank call centre and our mandate was to resolve things as quick as possible (sales were needed but most agents I knew tagged them on at the end half-heartedly to meet the quotas), whereas the tellers needed to get as many new products signed up as possible. In every dealing I have had with a bank fro personal accounts it has been a similar experience (I couldn’t close an unused LOC at a branch because it wasn’t my home one but did it in 5 minutes over the phone)
January 23, 2010 at 2:32 am
To everyone who gets the annoying calls from banks ect. I had the phone to my children (2 and 4 years old) they LOVE talking on the phone and eventually the person just hangs up
January 23, 2010 at 8:19 am
wow!…Gail’s blog advises folks how to get the info they are entitled to and it turns into yet again another bank bashing blog…nobody wants to take responsibility…if you don’t want to be called by your bank simply go into or call into your branch and ask to be removed from the call list…it’s not a difficult or complicated thing to do…it’s merely taking responsibility…if credit protection was sold in the manner Jennifer stated then Jennifer you really need to report that…that advisor has to know that is NOT an acceptable practice…credit protection is a valid product and does indeed benefit alot of people…I always talk to my clients about it in detail and go through the booklet with them…THEN if they decide they don’t want it, I can feel confident that I did my part to inform them of all the BENEFITS and that they have made an informed decision and I RESPECT that…banking is a business like anything else..we all have a job to do…from the frontline staff to the manager…if any of us are doing something wrong you need to speak up…don’t stew and smolder…say something…like Gail said you are entitled to certain things but you need to speak up…speak up when it happens and speak up to the right person…and DO NOT paint us all with the same brush…there are mistakes made in ALL industries…healthcare included…I could go on a rant about that but I don’t my individual experience doesnot mean the healthcare system is some big bad place…there are still more good people in that field than not…same with the banks…even McDonald’s tries to upsell to me when I go there…I worked there almost 30 years ago and it was a major focal point of our training we HAD to ask each and every client if they wanted something they hadn’t ordered…UPSELL, ADD Value…whatever term you use…ALL businesses do it in one form or another…if you don’t want it say no thank you…if you do then find out all the details before you accept it…and if you are offended or bothered then speak up!!!!!!!!!!!!!…but don’t bash us…
January 23, 2010 at 8:30 am
Group RESPs, My wife and I got suckered when our daughter was born. Red flags were popping up but for the most part we were too tired and too frazzled to take note. The only good thing we did was to make a token size contribution to get the “plan” started ($50 a month), by the time the smoke cleared and we realized what we had signed on to we figured it’s not so bad, we’ll just never increase that monthly amount and will direct any further money elsewhere.
Am still rather irked about the whole thing (we’re generally savvy consumers) but that’s life, you can’t win them all.
January 23, 2010 at 12:17 pm
I may be the only person that really doesn’t mind when banks call or the survey people (as long as I’m not in the middle of something important). I usually catch them off guard by asking where they are calling from. If they say Canada I go ahead and let them talk or answer their questions. I’m all for keeping jobs in Canada, and I have never bought or been suckered into extra insurance. Just be pleasant and remember that their paycheck is purchasing power in our economy.
January 23, 2010 at 6:09 pm
I understand absolutely nothing about finance, and live a good life without spending money. But what you seem to be saying is
1. Don’t believe “authorities.”
2. Think for yourself.
3. Get important information from people you trust.
These sound like sensible guidelines in all issues: from finding a dentist to finding a piano teacher.
January 23, 2010 at 8:37 pm
It is my humble opinion that there are good and bad employees in all professions and walks of life. Whether it is in health care, financial institutions, your local car dealership and garage, education…..the list goes on.
Sometimes we are able to blow off our frustrations and carry on. Other times we cannot and rant to anyone who will listen. It is no doubt the human condition.
Because this site is primarily about our finances it is like open hunting season on anything related to banks/bankers. Past grievances (no matter how long ago they were) resurface, are rehashed and shared.
I have learned so much from Gail and everyone who posts here. Believe me when I tell you no one is ever too old to learn. And so, when these grievances are mentioned and how they were handled and resolved, it is a learning experience. I’ve been very impressed with the posts that you share Sparky, and I feel badly that you feel attacked. I do hope you will continue to help educate me and the others here with your expertise in the financial world.
January 24, 2010 at 10:07 am
Many thanks for the support Catherine…that made my day!!…I am a good honest trustworthy banker…and I LOVE LOVE LOVE my job…especially the credit because I do it responsibly…
January 24, 2010 at 11:02 am
@ Catherine & Sparky,
We all speak to our ‘own’ experiences when it comes to finances and the good thing about this blog is that we can share the good, the bad and the ugly. Sparky, hopefully you aren’t always feeling attacked
. As Catherine has said, in [many/every] industry there is incompetence at [many] levels – it’s simply a part of life and the human condition. I think the one thing that can make a difference in an experience is whether the person we are dealing with ‘listens’ to us, instead of trying sell us something. I’ve come a long way, with many financial foibles to show for it. As such, I’m now at the stage where I somewhat self-manage my finances – as the saying goes, ‘nobody cares about your money more than you do’; but that is not to say, I don’t listen to what is being said but will do what I feel is right for me and suffer the consequences with eyes wide open. It is somewhat a reflection of previous ‘advisers’ I’ve had, as well as my determination to take control and be pro-active having watched money disappear as a result of the financial meltdown.
January 24, 2010 at 11:20 am
No…I don’t ALWAYS feel attacked..lol…but it is difficult to hear all the negative comments…it does make me work all the harder to make sure my clients don’t feel that way about me…there is no problem too big or too small for me to help with and no question is too dumb to ask me…I respect all my clients and treat them all individually…too bad you couldn’t all come to my office…you’d be pleasantly surprised!!..lol..
January 24, 2010 at 1:49 pm
Sparky – I never said that all bankers act this way. But yes, I do hold TD responsible in addition to this individual for the experience we had. He represents their company, and he was trained by TD. As much as you may dislike that there are many of us who have had negative experiences with banks, and I am sure there are many great advisors out there who work for the banks, it takes 10 great experiences to override a negative one. And most people will not tell their friends about a positive experience, but they will tell at least 10 people about a negative one. I know I for one have already told at least 10 of my co-workers (2 of whom had the same experience at TD with a mortgage!) and obviously everyone on here.
I am a teacher and negative things get said all the time about teachers and the education system. Working in this system, the best I can do is open dialogue with people and ask them why they feel certain ways, and encourage them to do something about it if their concerns are genuine and valid. I appreciate those of you who advised me to go to the bank right away. I plan on writing a letter of complaint actually and will bring it in in person to deliver to the branch manager. Sparky, I never painted all bankers with the same brush. I simply told you of a very negative experience I had this week, and it is enough to taint my perception of the industry. I also have two good friends who work for 2 different banks and I understand sales targets and sales pressure pitches. Of course it is me who is responsible for having signed the documents, and I take responsibility for that.
January 24, 2010 at 3:09 pm
Jennifer:
Let us know how the cancelling went.
January 24, 2010 at 3:27 pm
I was one of those people that advised you to make your complaint known…that advisor would not have been trained that way but if that is the way he is offering the product then some retraining is in order pronto…there are sales targets of course…we are not pressured to make a sale at any cost though…we are trained to look for opportunities that are first and foremost beneficial to the client as well as to the business…anyway, this is indeed a financial blog and bankers, lenders, credit card companies, investors etc are going to be bashed…my only point has been that there are some mixed messages here….this site and the info on it are to make people see the error of their ways and to get them out of debt…not to let them hide behind the excuse of “if only” or I am in this mess “because of”…(fill in the blanks with any number of items…the bank “gave” me too much credit…the c/c company “made” my limit higher…the investor “put” my money in a bad investment”)…we have to take responsibility for where our money goes and how it’s spent…we have brains and we know how to ask questions…if we are unsure, uneasy or things are as clear as mud we need to slow down and ask what we NEED to know…we are entitled to that…and we are obligated to take responsibility as well…’nuff said by this resident banker!…cheers y’all
oh and p.s….with two special needs children in the school system…I stay away from sharing all of my negative experiences in the schools and believe me there were lots and focus on sharing the positives and the good people I have found within the system…it is alot less stressful for other parents coming into the system to hear the positive rather than the negative…the negative I dealt with and it’s over…perhaps that’s something we should consider…tell 10 people about the GOOD experiences instead of the negative!!…Happy Sunday!!:)
January 25, 2010 at 5:12 am
Sparky, I need you! I received the gift of a granddaughter almost a year ago (who also has an older sister {6 yrs old} that I would love to have RESP’s set up for. Since I know that even initiating an information session with a bank/advisor will lead to the pressure of a sell, I am looking for information. I understand that the Government grants/matching are based on income – I am sure that I make more than my son, and don’t want this to hinder the amount young Hadley and Shaylee (aren’t they beautiful names?) will receive in ‘free’ government money. What is the best way to set up plans for both girls, where I can contribute on their behalf? Is the RESP something that other family members can contribute to as well, ie: birthday money? I have looked through this site and can’t find any explanations about RESP’s. I feel that I can trust the information that I receive from readers here, so hoping that I get some feedback. When you talk about group plans, are you talking grouping family members into one plan, or like an employee group medical plan – every Tom, Dick and Sally who signs up for that particular plan. Or, is a plain, old CSB the way to go???
On a side note, as a card dealer in a Casino, I am constantly being accused of “taking/stealing my money”. I have resorted to informing players that I did not force them to walk in the door, nor did I put my hand in their pocket and remove the money! I know, not totally polite, but one can only be accused of ‘cheating’ so many times!! We all have to take responsibility for our actions, financial or otherwise.
Oh, and speaking of mortgage insurance – years ago, I had a young secretary, a widow with FOUR kids, who had left the room to attend to a baby when her husband was in the process of signing the paperwork on their new home. She did not know that he declined the insurance. He cut his arm at work, and was in the waiting room to see a doctor, stood up when called, had a dizzy spell, passed out and hit his head on the counter on the way to the floor. It killed him! They did have insurance, and it managed to pay off the house, but barely. She was forced to work to support her family, when she should have been grieving and caring for her babies. I don’t know much about the issue, but sounds like mortgage insurance is a bad thing? Would like to know why, in case I can ever afford to buy a home. Anyway, thanks to all posters for your thought provoking information, and please share your knowledge on RESP’s. Hadley is one on February 18th, and if I can ever get her mother to get her a SIN, we could be good to go….
January 25, 2010 at 7:58 am
Suzanne, here is a link to a blog that deals with RESPs:
http://gailvazoxlade.com/blog/archives/318
January 25, 2010 at 8:07 am
The problem with mortgage insurance is that it only covers the balance of your mortgage. So as you pay down your mortgage, the payout will be less. Of course your payments don’t go down as your mortgage balance goes down! The goal of mortgage insurance is for the bank to ensure they get paid.
You are better off getting an insurance policy separately, where the payout won’t change. Also a stand alone insurance policy will pay the benefits directly to you, not the bank.
Another consideration is that maybe at the time of your spouse’s death, you decide that paying off the mortgage isn’t the most effective use of the money. With a mortgage insurance policy you have no choice but to pay it off with that money.
January 25, 2010 at 1:48 pm
Suzanne…congrats on the grand babies…they do indeed have lovely names!!
Here is a bit of info on the way RESP’s work..
As a grandparent you can open an resp for your grandchildren..you are the subscriber and each child is a beneficiary…only a subscriber can make the actual contribution so if other folks want to add money they need to give it to you and then you can go in and make the deposit…the Canada Education Savings Grant is not based on income…it contributes 20% of what you put in up to a maximum of 500.00 per year (so your max contribution per year to receive grant money for would be 2500.00…you can contribute more in a year but no grant money would be paid on it…if you don’t contribute the max then it is carried forward)
The Canada Learning Bond is available to children born on or after Jan 1 2004 whose family is eligible to receive the National Child Benefit Supplement (NCBS)…your bank should have some printed material available in their brochure stand that you can take home and read…and then by all means call an advisor and set up a question / answer appt…tell them up front that you are wanting information only at this meeting…they won’t mind and that way you can have all your questions answered…take the info with you and then make an informed decision…hope this helps !
January 26, 2010 at 3:57 pm
Online banking – haven’t talked to a teller in about two years. The only things they try to sell me are through junk mail and messages on my online account, which are easy enough to ignore. I have my mortgage at a credit union and these guys are awesome to deal with.
January 26, 2010 at 4:00 pm
@Ashb – when someone calls claiming to be from the bank and then asks to confirm ANY personal details, even mailing address, I automatically assume it is not the bank and is a scam. It may sound real, but it may just be phishing (identity thieves).
January 26, 2010 at 6:23 pm
@Suzanne
Congratulations on the grand-babies! For RESP’s, I recommend that my clients sit down with all family members who may want to contribute and decide who should be the owner/contributor, etc. Unless there’s a reason the parents shouldn’t be owners, I usually suggest that the parents of the children should be joint subscribers/owners. This is for ease of long-term planning – I don’t know your age/circumstances, but when it comes time to use the money, the parents are usually better able to get the appropriate documentation from the university/college than a grandparent is. Also, this way both sets of extended family can contribute to the same plan, and the parents are responsible for ensuring the grants are invested according to their wishes. I’ve seen situations where both sets of grandparents opened RESPs and the confusion was immense! Remember, the grant is 20% of $2500/yr per child, and it gets put into whichever account gets the contribution 1st! So everyone needs to communicate!
The custodial parent (whoever receives the family allowance) has to sign the application to allow their income information to flow from Canada Revenue Agency to Human Resources Dev’t Canada (the gov’t division that oversees RESPs) so they can see if the child is eligible for extra grant or learning bond money based on that parent’s income.
I know it seems complicated, but it’s totally worth the effort to get this sorted out. And yes, both kids need SINs to be eligible. If they’re siblings, a family plan is ideal.
Hope this helps!