This & That: Relationships & Money Edition
Posted by Gail | Filed under Relationships, This & That
Aileen wrote: Hi! The best way I feel to ask my question is to first give you a readers digest version of my story. 2 1/2 years ago, I entered into a debt repayment plan. I was single, working all sorts of jobs(a contractor), new owner of an acreage and ready to do anything to make ends meet (even if it meant not eating lol). January 2008 I became pregnant after being with Ron for a very short time. We both worked together to prepare for our child (Quaid now 9 months). We both kept on top of our bills and readied for baby with mostly second hand items (huge money saver). Now, I am at home with Quaid every day, while Ron is out working. I don’t qualify for maternity leave, and I’m doing what I feel possible for work at this moment. (Quaid just started sleeping through the night 2 days ago) so the only time I have to get any work done is in the middle of the night, and usually by then I’m totally drained! We have a room mate who’s rent covers one mortgage payment ($650). But there are still bills, food, the other mortgage payment and then of course my $1100/month debt repayment. I feel like Ron is still expecting to pay only half of the bills? Every time I try to talk to him about it I feel like I’m hitting a wall. Is this something I’m doing wrong? There MUST be other’s in this similar situation? There is probably a lot more to tell, but I already feel I’m outstepping the simple question thing here. My question is this… How do I get Ron to be on the same page with me with money issues??
Aileen, I’m not sure what page you are on. It sounds like you expect Ron to foot the total bill while you are at home with Quaid. Did you and Ron have a conversation about how you were going to deal with the finances once Quaid arrived? Is there anything you can sell to pay down the debt so that it isn’t gobbling $1100 a month? Have you considered putting Quaid into childcare and getting back to work full time? How about doing the majority of your work when Ron is home so that he can care for Quaid while you earn your share of the expenses? I strongly recommend you both sit down and discuss this and come up with a plan to make it work.
J wrote: I have been a longtime fan of yours and absolutely adore you…. I watch your show regularly and when I cannot, I tape it…I have been having a dilemma for the past few months. I work two jobs just to get the mortgage paid off and pay for the kids’ extra-curricular activities that would not be possible with one job. Between my husband and myself, we make around $110K per year. I am very diligent about paying into our RRSPs, the kids’ RESPs, savings, emergency funds, TFSA etc. so much so that sometimes I find it hard to live becuase the money has been allocated to all these categories and there is nothing for “entertainment”. The kids take piano, taekwando, soccer etc. I have been blessed with everything I could have asked for. My problem is that between the two jobs, I work a total of 53 hours. I work one job during the day and one at night. One of the days I work is a Sunday night. I find that my only day at home is Saturday and this day is spent in laundry, cleaning etc. I would like to spend more time with my son who is 10 years old but it would mean giving up the Sunday night. My husband thinks that I should hang on to it until we pay off the mortgage in 3 years but I feel that my son will be 13 and may not want to spend as much time with me then as he wants to now. I am torn about the loss of income and the gnawing desire to spend time with my son – I would like to go to the park on a Sunday evening, just sit and read with him,etc. – things I dont have time to do now working 4 days at each job (on two days of the week I work 14 hours per day). Gail, what do you think I should do? Maybe if I told you that I was 47 years old it might help. I strongly feel that I can make money any time but my son’s childhood will pass me by and then I will regret it… Gail, please help !! I trust your judgement… Thanks so much for always being the voice of reason…
J, I’m not sure why you are so hell-bent on getting the mortgage paid off that you would sacrifice time with your child to do so. I could understand if you had a lot of consumer debt that you’d prioritize debt repayment because of the risks associated. But there’s no risk with the mortgage. Slow down and breathe girl. You’re moving too fast and when you get to the end you might find it’s not what you expected. I’ve always put my children first. I’ve lived debt free except for a mortgage, and I’ve given a lot of time to them. They are the most precious thing to me. Now you have to decide what’s more important to you: to be mortgage free or to have time with your son.
M wrote: My husband and I are able to live on what we earn. We have a car loan which will be paid off in 3 years. No other debt. I manage the household expenses and he contributes proprtionately to his income. But I am not able to save more than $100 a month (plus a $200 pension contribution that I make through work). I just discovered that my husband has $5000 in savings that he has not told me about. I have given him several opportunities to mention it and he is silent. Should I confront him about this money, or should I assume that it is a cushion that somehow, he needs to have privately to himself, and let it go? I feel it is an issue of trust, more than an issue of dollars…. and I feel kind-of betrayed right now, since I am pouring everything I have into “our” lifestyle, but he has this secret stash that he feels the need to keep away from me.
M, it can be very hard to discover that a partner is keeping secrets. I hate secrets! I find them destructive in the extreme. I will tell you first to count your blessings that his secret isn’t a $5,000 owed on a credit card you don’t know about. As for why he’s keeping this money hidden from you, he may be saving it for something special he doesn’t want you to know about: it could be his F/U account or it could be for a surprise trip to Paris! There’s no telling.
I think what you need to get your head around is that you made a “deal” about how you would handle the finances. If he is contributing proportionate to his income and hasn’t renegged, he’s kept his part of the deal. You now need to back away and let him be. If you feel you’re being “cheated” in some way because he has more money than you, then you may have to renegotiate the “deal.”
You are doing a good job of saving: $300 a month adds up to $3,600 a year. Does your husband have a pension? How long has he been saving to acquire his $5,000? If he has been diligent, doing without things he would like to have to create this pool of money, he should be applauded.
If your only concern is the fact that the money has been kept a secret, then you need to ask yourself how important that really is? Do you love this man? Do you trust him? Has he been a good partner, responsible and caring? If the answers are all in the affirmative, you need to let this go. But you should not keep the “secret” that you know. That’s another sticking point. You should say something along the lines that you’ve found out about this money (if you were snooping where you should not have been, you’ll just have to explain that too), and clearly he must have a good reason for having kept it a secret… it’s his money, he worked hard to save it, and you just wish there were no secrets between you.
J wrote: Gail, Everything we save for, invest in, live, breathe, etc in the opinion of my spouse is for our young teenage daughter’s future. We recently went house hunting and purchased a property to accommodate my disability (I am a paraplegic), but of course – it really wasn’t about me, it is about how this investment will benefit my daughter in the future (you know, when we’re in the old aged home). I was injured at work, busting my butt working two jobs to ensure all our needs were met. Now, I can’t work and I am at home. This home will need hundreds of thousands of dollars in renovations to become accessible (thankfully insurance is paying for it). My spouse thinks these renovations will dramatically increase the value if we sell it in a few years (you know, in the event our daughter goes to university out of the area and we have to move). I feel that my daughter is beginning to feel she is “entitled”. Is this normal? Is my spouse suffering from perceived separation anxiety, Or am I just a selfish bastard.
J, it’s hard to say what’s what from where I’m sitting. But if you have one child, and your partner is fully invested in that child, what you’re experiencing isn’t unusual. It may have some negative consequences — like that sense of entitlement — but I’m not sure how you go about offsetting that if your partner is hell-bent on instilling it. I have found a lot of parents try to make up to their kids for what they think may be missing by focusing too heavily on the stuff money can buy. If your partner is determined to do whatever it takes to provide for your daughter, in light of what she feels may already be missing, that’s not a bad thing. If your daughter sees her mother’s effort as what you do to take care of those you love, that’s an important lesson. If, however, she sees it as her entitlement, no one will end up happy. Have you talked to your daughter about your expectations of her: what you — as a family — are prepared to do to support her, but also what you expect back from her? Why don’t you try having that conversation as a family to see where everyone stands. It may be a great jump off for some very interesting and enlightening discussions.
A wrote: Before we were married four years ago my husband was often too kind to his sister offering her “payday loans” where he would give her money up front and she would repay when her cheque arrived… sometimes she actually managed to pay him back, but the total she owes him currently is ~$10,000 !!! We recently had our first child and have debt ourselves that we are trying to get out of. She hasn’t been able to honor any of the cheques to repay the $500 he lent her for Christmas shopping for her three kids and we just found out they are purchasing a $400 purebred puppy next week… he called her to ask her when he could cash the cheques and all she says is “soon”. How can we ask her politly to avoid too much family tension if she is ever going to pay him back???
A, are you familiar with the old saying, “Neither a borrower nor a lender be”? I have always been of the philosophy that money lent to family and friends is money that has been gifted. Trying to collect causes so much heart-ache. (After she was $5,000 into you, did you not think that this might be an unresolvable situation?) I suggest you recognize that your SIL will likely not repay her debt. The lending should end and so should the expectation of repayment so you can get on with your life.
As for your own debt, with a baby on the way it’s time to get out of debt, no matter what it takes and get busy saving sor that baby.
Kate wrote: My husband and I have a joint chequing acocunt and while I like the idea of keeping a notebook to keep on top of my balance day to day, I find one of our biggest money mangement problems is we both have access to the account and therefore don’t know what the other has removed for day to day purchasing. What do you suggest?
Kate, when two people have access to the same account, there is no way to reconcile on a minute-by-minute basis. The best you can do is:
a) agree that you have a certain amount you can spend each month that doesn’t need to be “agreed upon”; everything else has to get the nod of approval from both,
b) update your notebook each evening, and
c) make sure all your “must pays” are deducted from your notebook first thing so you don’t end up spending the rent money on something else “by accident.”
Have y’all voted on this week’s blog poll? Go to the first page of the blog (where the picture shows up) and scroll down until you see the poll on the right. I’m very interested in seeing your responses to this question, so vote!
December 16, 2009 at 7:12 am
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December 16, 2009 at 8:25 am
great advice as always Gail!
December 16, 2009 at 9:10 am
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December 16, 2009 at 9:54 am
Gail – hubby and I are crazy about your five year planner on the show. How could I go about getting one?
Love your blog, read it daily, and crazy about you!
December 16, 2009 at 10:22 am
Gail, some of the best advice you give concerns relationships and making sure everyone is clear on how the money is going to be managed. It’s strange that so many of us can be sexually intimate but not financially intimate. When I got married, I hadn’t had that significant conversation and it took us a little while to work through our expectations. Most of the kinks are worked out now.
Kate: My husband and I have a joint chequing account too, but then we each have our own personal accounts. I transfer our personal spending into these separate accounts at the beginning of each month, and the joint account is rarely accessed except for utility bill and credit card payments. It seems to work well.
December 16, 2009 at 10:40 am
These are such great questions and tips. Thank you so much for all of the advice!
December 16, 2009 at 11:04 am
I consider myself very fortunate to have never had the issue of not agreeing with my spouse on financial matters. We have always been on the same page where that was concerned, including when we got into debt! And now that we are digging out of debt, we are attacking it together in a solid, united fashion. It feels great to enjoy the successes month after month together! I didn’t realize so many couples struggle with opposing views on how finances are managed! It’s an eye-opener for me!
December 16, 2009 at 11:28 am
Kate: We also have individual accounts into which our paycheques get deposited. Then we each transfer money (in amounts proportionate to our incomes) to the joint chequing account for fixed expenses. We also contribute to the jars each week (again, in amounts proportionate to our incomes) from our individual accounts. I actually do all of the money management, including telling my partner what’s going on in her bank account. I wish she were a bit more interested and engaged, and she wishes I were a bit less obsessive/compulsive (I carry the running balances of all three bank accounts and our debt — mortgage, car loan, LOC — in my head at all times), but generally it works for us!
December 16, 2009 at 12:47 pm
About Aileen’s situation: I agree, Gail, that her preexisting debt is her responsibility, and that they should have discussed what the money arrangements would be with one income before they had the baby. But as a woman and a soon-to-be mom, I have to emphatically say that he needs to step up for the rest. She’s working every bit as hard as he is and needs to be treated accordingly. She needs to ask him: if he were the full time caregiver, what would his expectations of support be?
If his salary isn’t adequate to provide for their family, then they’ll need to find a solution. But if it is enough, then she absolutely should not be compelled (at this point) to leave her baby just so he can keep his personal spending money.
December 16, 2009 at 12:53 pm
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December 16, 2009 at 1:30 pm
Aileen: Sorry hon, but I think if you guys aren’t able to make it on 1 salary, then it’s time to get back into the workforce. Both my kids had to go to daycare at 6 months of age because a) e.i. ran out, and b) we couldn’t keep our house on only my husband’s salary. It’s completely unfair for women to expect their husbands to work a gazillion hours so they can stay home with baby when they’re already in debt and probably at risk of losing the diaper off baby’s bottom because women feel that by giving birth they’re entitled to stay home. Daycare providers can be very good and professional and care for children in a safe and loving environment while women help carry the financial burden they helped the family get into in the first place. Sell the acreage and/or find a day job so you can be more at ease with the financial arrangement you have. Once the debt’s paid off and you want to stay home, then have the conversation of who does what (keeping the home and meals and baby taken care of while hubby works to afford for you to have this luxury not afforded many millions of women) and who pays for what so that it’s equal in, equal out.
J: Is your husband putting in the 53 hours a week as well? If not, then tell him he can pony up the rest of his 37.5/40 hour work week to accomplish the mortgage repayment sooner than 3 years if he’s so hell-bent in it being paid off. Being late 40’s is nothing to still have a mortgage (my mom’s going to have one at 70, but she’s still able to pay it down with her pension), so I’d recommend dropping one of the part-time jobs so you have a normal 37.5/40 hr work week or else split the extra 13 hrs so you work 6.5 and your husband works the other 6.5 over the next 3 years.
M: If you’re both paying equal proportion to income for bills, then his extra $5K is his savings and there’s no reason why you couldn’t have the same. If you’re paying 50/50 and you make more than he does, ditto for you being able to save your very own $5K. If you make less and pay 50/50, then maybe let him know you consider his $5K your emergency fund while you save your $100/month to go towards the mutual emergency fund.
J: Maybe your wife thinks that she’s got to fill a void because both parents aren’t 100% able-bodied right now, so she feels your daughter is missing out on the physical so she’s stuffing it full of financial…I don’t know what to say, but it sounds like you’re both trying to do your best with an unfortunate situation.
And A: The money’s spent and gone, and it likely won’t be returned ever. Consider it a gift and stop the ‘gifting’ from this point forward. Focus on paying off your own debts, and the next time your spouse wants to help his sister, offer some babysitting so she can work part-time somewhere to get her own debts paid off.
My opinion(s), for what they’re worth!
December 16, 2009 at 2:11 pm
“About Aileen’s situation: I agree, Gail, that her preexisting debt is her responsibility, ”
This is wrong. The fact that it’s preexisting debt isn’t actually relevant. If a child results in lost income, the fallout from that needs to be borne by both parents, not just the one staying home. Both parents need to work together to find a solution to make ends meet on that single income, or there has to be a split in child-care duties to allow both parents to earn.
I’m sure he’s got preexisting debt, too. So why should he be able to keep making full payments while she can’t, because of a child for which they’re both responsible?
December 16, 2009 at 2:54 pm
@ Neil, it’s great to see someone with that attitude. But if her debt is a sticking point for him – and maybe he didn’t bring his own debt to the relationship – then I don’t think it’s worth focusing on, for her sake.
My point was more that the work to maintain the family is being shared equally by both parents and their current expenses are incurred equally by all 3 of them. I don’t think anyone could disagree with that much, so his income needs to be used accordingly.
December 16, 2009 at 4:21 pm
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December 16, 2009 at 5:28 pm
@neil and everyone including Gail.
Raising a child as a full time parent is a a demanding task. If the parents decide to have one single income, while they have a stay at home parent, then the other parent should foot the bills. The stay at home parent will be just as exhausted from the daily tasks as the one that works outside the home.
If the parents decide to have a stay at home parent, then why is the stay at home parent being punished??
December 16, 2009 at 5:31 pm
@m – I would feel betrayed too. Any such secret is a sign that the other person might have other secrets, who knows. I hope that he doesn’t, but he does need to come clean.
I don’t know what to say, because I’m not the most diplomatic person, but I’d confront him, hoping that it is a misunderstanding.
On the other hand, my parents are comfortable having a life in which both of them have secrets from the other – and they love each other, just are not 100% honest… so who knows.
December 16, 2009 at 8:27 pm
@ioana – YEAH! You tell ‘em sistah! (oopps, just assumed you’re a girl, hope that’s ok – lol)
I agree with you – it’s a huge undertaking to stay at home with Jr. I know from experience, and I had a hubby who didn’t do anything on the homefront, because he was “already working”. It gets my feathers ruffled when people look down on you for being “just” a stay at home. Why would they assume that I’m just sitting around, eating bon-bons and watching Oprah all day? Oh, and my day wasn’t just 8 hours….the workday at home never ends.
End of Rant.
December 16, 2009 at 8:29 pm
and Bravo to Neil – very good point on the pre-existing debt. That child which is both of yours impacts both of you.
December 16, 2009 at 11:45 pm
iona and chubby bunny:
Being a stay-at-home parent is a choice. And from following Gail, my understanding is that you can’t have it all at once. I don’t want to get into the whole stay at home vs work outside the home, but the bottom line is both are choices and all choices need to be negotiated with the other people in your lives. I work in schools and so feel I have the opportunity to see both sides of the coin. (7 weeks off during the summer). What I know from this experience is that when I am working (and I work 50 – 60 hours during the school year) everyone in the family has to adjust and make changes. When I am home during the summers, there are also adjustments.
The bottom line is that people make a choice to stay home and raise a child. And if that is what they choose – then financially everyone makes accomodations. And this all must be negotiated together.
December 17, 2009 at 2:01 am
My rules on lending my hard earned cash: I feel everyone may go through a period where they need to borrow some funds for a short term time-frame. On a 1st request to borrow $$, I give them $20, see how and if they repay. If they repay when agreed to, then their borrowing limit increases to $50 for the next potential time. and so on to a max of $1,000.
If they don’t repay, I’ve only lost $20, $20 well spent. They will be delcined on further requests. Would rather find about their poor money habits at the $20 level.
December 17, 2009 at 8:27 am
You gotta wonder
Had a half way job to begin with, bunch of bills, gets pregnant(that always makes it better) owns a home probably can’t afford anyway
Sorry I can’t feel your pain.
December 17, 2009 at 10:01 am
For Aileen, what about having your partner take some parental leave, if they are qualified? That way you still have a parent with the baby but have more income coming in.
December 17, 2009 at 10:05 am
If both parents choose to have one parent stay home, then yes, I whole-heartedly agree that the one that works and pays the bills needs to acknowledge that the other parent is also working at the home, just in a different capacity in society’s eyes, and they need to share the after work hours parenting of the child(ren). BUT, and here’s a big one as I’ve seen it even in my own friends, if ONE parent decides (she) is staying home when there are debts already accumulated from pre-baby life, then it’s selfish of that one parent to expect the other to work (his) buns off outside the home to try and make a living to keep house and home together and pay down existing debts PLUS come home and have said baby dumped in his arms because Mom’s had a hard day too. To me that’s equally de-valuing…”Thanks for paying the mortgage and groceries and blah blah blah…now here’s the kid, I’ve got a life too y’know and I’ve been stuck in the house all day (never mind that I single-handedly decided I was going to be a stay-at-home parent) so now it’s my turn to get out and have some fun.” If that’s the case, then the day-time at-home parent gets to work evenings while the day-time working parent gets to stay home with baby and both get to live miserable lives for a few months/years until they’re debt free, complaint free, and able to then focus time on baby instead of on hemmoraging money so one parent gets to stay home.
December 17, 2009 at 1:00 pm
I sure appreciate your no nonsense approach to these kind of issues and was grateful for the new perspective to M’s situation about “secret” savings.
Word of advice from my own life – there is a time to work two jobs and a time to just live on less…figure out which phase of life you need to be in. I’ve done both and unfortunately they’re both hard.
December 17, 2009 at 2:15 pm
I feel for anyone who feels unfairly put in mom must work or stay home & be broke situation. I’m a stay-at-home-momma and love it! Hubby & I are always on the same page on everything! For real. To each their own. I don’t work, only hubby does and we both love this.. There’s Gail V-O site, TONS of frugal blogs and many ways to trim costs & work with what you already have, while saving & paying down Mortgage & debt. If mom’s do work..then find the time with kids when you are at home and maximize by 200% your quality time with them.
But if you’re stressing ‘cuz the spouse/partner is what’s stressin’ you…People, before the kids were created why were you crawling into bed with this person in the first place? He/she must of given a few clues to you beforehand that you chose to overlook??
December 18, 2009 at 9:38 am
I agree with Michelle — ideally I think the mom should stay home (actually, the heck with that, ideally we should both be able to stay home!) but the reality is that if you are heavily in debt already, and staying at home with the baby will make things worse, then I think you’re really doing a disservice to the child in the end by staying at home. It’s kind of like when Gail goes through the people’s houses on her show and its covered in baby toys, but they’re heavily in debt, the house is about to be foreclosed on, and I can only imagine there’s no RESP started for the child. What’s really putting the child first, getting trinkets or getting the future sorted out today?
December 18, 2009 at 7:30 pm
J, I think you and your family need to think long and hard about priorities. You are paraplegic – are you able to work? I don’t think the future of your young daughter should be the focus of the family’s long term planning. It should be yours. presumably your daughter will be self-supporting one day. will you? If suddenly you were single, could you live on your own physically? Financially?
Also, renovations to make a house more accessible do not increase its value, not even adding a main floor bathroom or bedroom, or an elevator. You may in fact be decreasing it with those changes. You need to talk to a realtor in your area before you put 200K into serious changes.
My two cents’ worth anyway.